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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if the red weather warning will now make you take climate change seriously?

280 replies

YetiTeri · 16/07/2022 14:34

Now you know what impact this heat will have (schools closing, travel chaos, threat to life) will it make you take climate change more seriously?

OP posts:
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7
Discovereads · 17/07/2022 08:35

Liebig · 16/07/2022 17:25

The energy and real GDP growth correlation is well documented. You can't have economic growth without using energy, it's kind of physically impossible.

But I'll entertain you. What real economic activity uses no energy or resources?

Actually you can increase GDP while using fewer resources and less energy. What do you think automation did?

AntlerRose · 17/07/2022 08:45

I suppose the question isnt aimed at me, because i always cared. I still feel powerless.
I literally have no idea on how to conpletely restructure the economic model and how to make the rich and powerful change their behaviour.

VegMam · 17/07/2022 08:46

i already knew climate change was an issue and behave accordingly. That includes my lifestyle as well as climate activism.

Our government is not taking the climate crisis seriously and it’s imperative to limit climate change that governments do (and legislate accordingly). Individual lifestyle changes are not sufficient. I strongly encourage anyone who is concerned about climate change to engage with climate activism.

DdraigGoch · 17/07/2022 08:54

Daftasabroom · 16/07/2022 15:43

@DenholmElliot1 yes I agree and HS2 is going to be a massive white elephant doing untold damage to the environment. That money could have been so much better spent on local transport infrastructure. It might have made sense when it was originally proposed but technology has overtaken it in the time it taken to get kicked off.

HS2 will help rail compete better with short-haul aviation. It will also substantially increase capacity, allowing fares to drop (supply and demand) and making more paths available for freight.

As Eurostar services got quicker and quicker, they decimated the cross-channel aviation market:
www.oag.com/blog/high-speed-rail-vs-air-eurostar-at-25-the-story-so-far

GiveMeNovocain · 17/07/2022 08:55

YetiTeri · 17/07/2022 07:09

I know, I read your post. I thought you were critiquing my question for other people. I already care, you already care. Many people don't.

This type of comment is exactly why people switch off. Why do you think calling people uncaring is going to mean they change? They disconnect and become resistant to your cause.

If you actually want change rather than just hectoring people your tone damages your cause. Inspire people- what steps would make a difference? How many people would need to do it? For how long?

MarshaBradyo · 17/07/2022 08:56

DdraigGoch · 17/07/2022 08:54

HS2 will help rail compete better with short-haul aviation. It will also substantially increase capacity, allowing fares to drop (supply and demand) and making more paths available for freight.

As Eurostar services got quicker and quicker, they decimated the cross-channel aviation market:
www.oag.com/blog/high-speed-rail-vs-air-eurostar-at-25-the-story-so-far

There’s a fair bit of opposition to HS2 including calls to drop it but I don’t understand why what you say isn’t more known and appreciated

Discovereads · 17/07/2022 08:58

Liebig · 16/07/2022 18:09

@Discovereads God you are outdated.
Mechanisation isn’t bad 🫤. It’s good and all that farm equipment comes in electric options. There are also plenty of fossil fuel free fertilisers and pesticides. Not to mention that sustainable farming practices include crop rotation where fields are grazed on as part of said rotation and the cow/sheep poo adds the nitrogen back in without recourse to nitrogen fertiliser made from natural gas.

The electric options don’t work. You cannot have battery operated combines or large tractors, they’re too heavy and the infrastructure to power them isn’t remotely there (farms have a tendency of not being anywhere near major urban areas).

The latest John Deere prototypes are tiny for the BEVs, with the ones that could do what actual tractors do requiring power cables to be suspended and towed along with the unit. Also, they costs far more than diesel or even the diesel-electric hybrid systems.

The current industrialised agricultural system relies on fossil inputs. There’s no way around that. Want to see a country that went full organic? It’s been in the news lately. They lost 50% of yield as soon as the mandate to go green came into being in 2021. Their president fled the nation this week.

Hydrogen & oxygen come from our atmosphere and we are not going to run out of it for hundreds of millions of years- far longer than any species has ever survived so don’t think we need to worry about that.

There is NO free hydrogen in the atmosphere. Jesus. This is secondary school knowledge.


Do you even know where we get hydrogen from currently? It's natural gas. The cylinders I order for my lab are, along with helium, rocketing in price because we got a huge amount from Russian natural gas.

On desal, I don’t need to ask anyone. I’ve installed desal on remote islands very cheaply with RO plants powered by wind turbines supporting populations in thousands. It’s easy to scale up or down and very fast to build and cheap to maintain.

I actually doubt that, given the typical per litre/kWh rate for desal plants, they are not economically viable in the least and have a host of other problems such as the salt production and dead zones in littoral waters.


I’m not worried about nuclear plants. We will decommission and demolish them as we move away from rising sea levels. We have enough other green energy coming on line to adjust.

You should be, since it takes a LOT of energy and resources to decommission a nuclear plant, not to mention years. And that’s assuming they don’t run into any Chernobyl, Windscale, or Fukushima related issues.

Modular small nuclear reactors get around this somewhat, but we have no chance to scale these up in anything like the time we have, and they rely on uranium which is, again, finite.


Yes we are running out of some metals like cobalt for example, but so what? We can always reengineer things if we have to. We’ve done so before for different reasons. And I completely disagree with you on energy resources…we have tons of energy. The sun is a vast barely tapped resource.

Checked the ore quality of copper and rare earths lately? How about the price of lithium? Declining ore qualities means more dirt has to be dug to find the same amount of what we normally could get from surface seams a century ago. This is illustrated by just how massive open pit mining has become and how amazingly bad for the environment it all is. The boom in EVs has produced some crazy price increases too, to the point that they are raising prices to offset the losses in lithium costs and neodymium and cobalt, or even just copper.

On top of that, the wind turbine sector is in big trouble as consequence.

Also, I should correct myself. It’s not an energy problem, as you pointed out. It’s an exergy problem we have. We now have much, much higher energy costs of energy doing anything economically valuable. That is why the cost of everything goes up, because energy is the master resource.

If the cost of energy rises inexorably, that means the economy gears itself to paying more and more of its discretionary income from said energy to produce more of it. This is why there is an exergy crisis, because, yes, there is oodles of energy about, but it matters not. It's like telling a sailor in a life raft not to worry about dehydration, he's literally floating on all the water he'll ever need!

@liebig

The point is that electric versions do exist for farm vehicles are we are in fact weaning ourselves off fossil fuels, so no, we are not dependent on them as we have alternatives. All the issues you list are simply ones of logistics. The same with hydrogen, it is not only produced using methane from natural gas, but methane from biomass, so again we are not dependent on fossil fuels to cryeste hydrogen as there is an alternate source that we are using and ramping up.

You are simply wrong about desal plants as well- as the ones using RO are more than economically viable and are being used on various remote islands. I helped install one on a British island for example, Ascension Island. Look it up. And there are no “dead zones” in fact the island has tons of sea life around it. Sea turtles, fish, whales, dolphins, and so on such that is is actually a protected Marine Wildlife Preserve. Not to mention it is creepily covered in crabs everywhere you look there are giant crabs on the rocks and land crabs in the interior. The only time any marine life get killed is when occasionally the undersea volcano erupts poison gas under the water. Ascension Island is the tip of an active volcano that spans from seabed to above the sea level.

sweetieqie · 17/07/2022 08:59

@GiveMeNovocain if someone calls you uncaring (of all things) switches you off, then they are totally right.

Many people aren't in a position to use solar panels or grow their own chickens but what's the excuse for not even caring.

Discovereads · 17/07/2022 09:01

Liebig · 16/07/2022 22:54

Nope. Just wondering.

That mentality compounded by eight billion means they will grow up to see the fall of our civilisation. I hope you enjoy your early years with them. By 2050, they’ll be fighting to not be part of Immortan Joe’s harem in the water wars.

Or maybe nothing happens. Hey, it’s only science. They could all be wrong. All the scientists.

Yeah right all the scientists think that our civilisation is going to collapse by 2050 and we will be fighting water wars. Would that be the science team behind Mad Max? 🙄

GiveMeNovocain · 17/07/2022 09:02

sweetieqie · 17/07/2022 08:59

@GiveMeNovocain if someone calls you uncaring (of all things) switches you off, then they are totally right.

Many people aren't in a position to use solar panels or grow their own chickens but what's the excuse for not even caring.

I work in campaigning. Insulting people switches them off. You want change you need to bring people along. You don't? Carry on insulting them if it makes you feel better but know you are actively damaging the cause you claim to care about

FelicityFlops · 17/07/2022 09:08

If people were taking climate change seriously they would stop using the internet and supermarkets, who import unseasonal produce with more airmiles than Prince Andrew.

Covetthee · 17/07/2022 09:17

i do take it seriously as i can, but in some aspects when money is a worry then i have no choice… they government doesn’t help people

at the same i do all i can and then you see bloody celebrities taking a 30 mins private plane ride for the day and you think wtf is the point of me using paper straws when bigger people are what is destroying this planet

malificent7 · 17/07/2022 09:23

If you care about the climate stop voting Tory ( so many climate deniers in that cabinet) as they only cate about big business.
Get behind the Green Party and I know they don't know what a woman is anf think women can have dicks or something, but they are probably the best chance we have right now....or at least think about socialism.

I don't think that's going to happen btw as people are secret tories.

malificent7 · 17/07/2022 09:23

And*

malificent7 · 17/07/2022 09:24

Care*

sweetieqie · 17/07/2022 09:27

I work in campaigning. Insulting people switches them off. You want change you need to bring people along. You don't? Carry on insulting them if it makes you feel better but know you are actively damaging the cause you claim to care about

It is uncaring... that is a fact.

And it's also not an insult either. You either care or you don't. It's not really damaging because those type of people who are so petulant that they go 'well now you said that, I'm going to go and and do x' were never going to care.

Anyway, I'm not going around calling people uncaring, I never brought up the word in the first place, so not sure what I'm damaging.

malificent7 · 17/07/2022 09:28

On one hand we are scared about climate change but we are VERY quick to condemn Insulate Britain, who have a point btw even though their tactics are questionable.

Will the Tories insulate Britain? Probably not but it will help save fuel and therefore help with fuel. poverty too. This will benefit everyone..especially the poor.

DoubleShotEspresso · 17/07/2022 09:48

YetiTeri · 17/07/2022 06:07

In answer to my question then, people who cared about climate change still care. And those that thought it was hoax or don't give a shit about brown people dying haven't changed their minds.

Maybe this helps explain your point in a more informative/less accusatory way?

twitter.com/willnorman/status/1548547271725240323?s=21&t=NJfJZKCdjsP5KnLmsezYDw

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 09:49

@DdraigGoch technologies such as those being developed by Vertical Zeroavia Rolls Royce and Airbus will leapfrog HS2, literally.

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 09:53

@malificent7 I was no fan of Boris or the Torries generally but he did get climate change as did Theresa May before him.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 17/07/2022 09:54

YetiTeri · 16/07/2022 16:12

Utter bullshit. You can get cheap better quality clothes in charity shops.

Privilege again.
This is only true in affluent areas. Round here you get 3rd hand Primark crap at twice the price it was new.

YetiTeri · 17/07/2022 10:01

DoubleShotEspresso · 17/07/2022 09:48

Maybe this helps explain your point in a more informative/less accusatory way?

twitter.com/willnorman/status/1548547271725240323?s=21&t=NJfJZKCdjsP5KnLmsezYDw

Hopefully. The science is all there. The graphics are all there. Climate stripes are a brilliant way of showing the trend. Why is it not making more of a difference though? I doubt it's because people think 'well YetiTeri was a bit rude so I'm never going to walk instead of drive'

OP posts:
Elphame · 17/07/2022 10:04

I have always taken climate change seriously.

However it takes more than a bit of recycling to make a difference and I believe that the ship has now sailed. The US and China are making no real effort to change which make my own efforts pretty pointless.

Welcome to the future.

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 10:08

@VegMam what do you suggest the government actually do? What relatively simple policies could they put in place that are actually doable without bringing the country any closer to the brink of collapse than it already is?

AntlerRose · 17/07/2022 10:14

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 10:08

@VegMam what do you suggest the government actually do? What relatively simple policies could they put in place that are actually doable without bringing the country any closer to the brink of collapse than it already is?

I dont think its for tge average person to know the solutions. Its for the government to govern. We tell them its an important issue we care about and they govern with that in mind.