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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if the red weather warning will now make you take climate change seriously?

280 replies

YetiTeri · 16/07/2022 14:34

Now you know what impact this heat will have (schools closing, travel chaos, threat to life) will it make you take climate change more seriously?

OP posts:
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7
Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 12:27

@VegMam XRs 1 and 3 are great and many organisations are doing this and the UK government under Boris has proposed legislation to enforce both. But when XR call for net zero by 2025 I switch off and so should any other sane person. It is so ridiculous as to completely discredit their other very valid arguments, millions would die and the country would cease to exist. And that's before they start glueing themselves to electric buses.

Stop Oil I have more sympathy with but again there are big arguments against it. The biggest is that the infrastructure and extraction have a relatively low impact compared to the burning of fossil fuels. Next is that I believe it is better that we take responsibility for our emissions and that bringing them under our control and our scope 1 as a nation is better than off-shoring them where environmental destruction and human rights abuses are endemic.

Both organisations have great ideals but both equally undermine themselves and the really simple message that by 2050 we need to stop burning fossil fuels.

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 12:30

bellac11 · 17/07/2022 10:51

Is this the average for the whole year?

I'd assume an average for the month of June. The link to the NASA page might give more detail, I haven't had time to drill down into it.

DyingForACuppa · 17/07/2022 12:33

If people were taking climate change seriously they would stop using the internet and supermarkets

I'm taking climate change seriously, but not more seriously than my kids eating.

(Can't afford anything but cheapest food, need internet to earn the money).

RainCoffeeBook · 17/07/2022 12:43

It doesn't matter how seriously random people take it. Chucking a few bottles into the recycling isn't going to make a difference.

Most normal people already drive minimally or not at all and don't use fast fashion. It doesn't impact when billions of others do.

bellac11 · 17/07/2022 12:52

RainCoffeeBook · 17/07/2022 12:43

It doesn't matter how seriously random people take it. Chucking a few bottles into the recycling isn't going to make a difference.

Most normal people already drive minimally or not at all and don't use fast fashion. It doesn't impact when billions of others do.

Is it this thread where someone has gone all huffy about fast fashion in a berating style? (I lose track of what threads say what)

I really laughed at that, I realised the other day most of my clothing is older than some of my work colleagues!!!!

Liebig · 17/07/2022 12:57

Personally, I'm not worried about climate change right now so much as I am the fall of industrial civilisation as we are now more or less at the precipice of net energy.

What do I mean by that?

Well, the run up to modern day has included the exponential increases in use of fossil energy and other resources to the point that we in 2022 live much better lives than most kings and emperors did in antiquity. You can see from the start of the Industrial Revolution in 1750 or so, that we have been on this binge of stored sunlight from the ground like a crack addict in a CIA backed crack den. All that cheap, abundant energy just waiting to be utilised.

Then we discovered oil and then gas for use, and that made things kick up a notch after coal.

But now, we don't get 100 barrels of oil for every one barrel we use to prospect. We are now tapping source rock with fracking, which is the definition of wringing a sponge out for the dregs.

The energy returns for solar and wind, the two major renewables, are nowhere near the massive returns we got from anthracite coal, light sweet West Texas crude, or the earliest gas fields inland. Those days are over, so we can only go for the expensive to find and hard to extract sludge that was never favoured first.

All the nice and cheap, easy stuff is gone.

This means that energy will rise inexorably from here on out. Forever. Solar and wind and batteries and hydrogen do not change this. All of them are, energetically, way less prosperous than even the poorest fossil fuel.

Which, it then follows, means that the amount of leftover energy profit from industry will dwindle. That means less energy goes to everything else that makes our economy, from art and culture to education and care. If you have a salary, and all your utility bills go up, then you can have less money to spend on everything else, or you cut back on the utilities and freeze or sit in the dark or drive fewer miles. You can't have both.

It's that, but at a civilisational level. And no human alive has ever seen this set of circumstances come about. It's literally never happened, just as the windfall from using fossil fuels to create an industrial civ from otherwise agrarian roots, has never happened before. And won't ever again.

For that reason, you could perhaps see some cause for optimism regarding climate change. After all, if we're now at peak coal, oil and soon, gas, then that means emissions will peak. True, there may not be enough cheap fossil fuels around now to break the RCP8.5 pathways the IPCC project as worst case (even if we're trending that way currently). However, this doesn't help us given we still have catastrophic increases baked in already, and there are runaway effects such as the Amazon becoming a net emitter of carbon instead of sink, or the methane hydrates in the Arctic being released en masse which could keep climate change going for far worse records than we could do by ourselves.

And of course, no one here has ever lived in a period where global prosperity goes down, and continues to go down, every year. We've only ever known continued growth, or lately, a bumpy plateaux of wealth.

Liebig · 17/07/2022 12:58

bellac11 · 17/07/2022 12:52

Is it this thread where someone has gone all huffy about fast fashion in a berating style? (I lose track of what threads say what)

I really laughed at that, I realised the other day most of my clothing is older than some of my work colleagues!!!!

I'm rocking stuff from when I was in uni in the 2000s.

bluenameblue · 17/07/2022 13:05

no, I already freak out about climate change badly. I was hoping I'd be able to have a few more years before shit hits the fan in England.

I fucking hate it. I feel like I am in a movie where my children will die one by one from multiple natural disasters.

ConsuelaHammock · 17/07/2022 13:10

I’d vote for rationing air miles and limiting family size.
Food should be produced locally and everyone eat seasonally but that means investing in local agriculture.
Electronic devices using lots of natural resources should be built to last longer and people shouldn’t be able to upgrade every two years.
Cheaper bus and train travel would be a huge bonus.

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 13:16

malificent7 · 17/07/2022 07:23

I am hoping the price rises will force us to consider alternatives such as car sharing,working from home, less heating ...more layers etc....its the silver lining.

But please can't the government introduce a solar panel scheme and provide proper insulation.

Boiler replacement
Insulation
Solar and wind don't really make sense at small domestic levels as the equipment to feed the energy into the grid is much larger proportion of the cost. Equally maintenance of a few panels high up on someone's roof is a lot more difficult than 10,000 in a nice flat field.

However there is no reason whatsoever why the building regs couldn't be changed to require better energy efficiency, and successive governments have failed in this regard.

Daftasabroom · 17/07/2022 13:20

ConsuelaHammock · 17/07/2022 13:10

I’d vote for rationing air miles and limiting family size.
Food should be produced locally and everyone eat seasonally but that means investing in local agriculture.
Electronic devices using lots of natural resources should be built to last longer and people shouldn’t be able to upgrade every two years.
Cheaper bus and train travel would be a huge bonus.

None of those would make much difference; the whole of aviation is only 2% of emissions, the whole of agriculture is 17% including change of land use. Public transport, absolutely, but it isn't viable for those outside of urban and suburban regions.

The simple message is that we need to stop burning fossil fuels. Government and industry really are pretty much onboard with this but the devil is in the detail.

Bubblebubblebah · 17/07/2022 13:56

bellac11 · 17/07/2022 12:52

Is it this thread where someone has gone all huffy about fast fashion in a berating style? (I lose track of what threads say what)

I really laughed at that, I realised the other day most of my clothing is older than some of my work colleagues!!!!

Clishe saying but... They don't make them as they used to. My mum has shoes and clothes older than me and they were not some super expensive brand at the time. No wa would even branded last like that nowadays. Same for technology.

Bubblebubblebah · 17/07/2022 13:58

*cliche ffs

Liebig · 17/07/2022 13:59

Bubblebubblebah · 17/07/2022 13:56

Clishe saying but... They don't make them as they used to. My mum has shoes and clothes older than me and they were not some super expensive brand at the time. No wa would even branded last like that nowadays. Same for technology.

Cliché. :)

Liebig · 17/07/2022 13:59

Bubblebubblebah · 17/07/2022 13:58

*cliche ffs

Haha, beat me by one second.

lemmein · 17/07/2022 14:50

*Odd comment. You are happy for your children to die prematurely because humans aren't immortal? No shit, I still don't want my children to suffer the effects of climate change. The global effects, for example, being food and water shortages and conflicts.

Let's not bother with healthcare, lunate or anything like that. If bad things happen, it's just nature innit.*

Like I said above, there's always been food and water shortages and conflicts globally - we just happen to live in a country largely unaffected by it; now it might happen to your kids (and mine) the world needs to take action? The arrogance of the west is truly astonishing.

Many people in this country will die prematurely because of poverty, no-one lays in the road for them. I've just googled for this post, the average 'healthy life expectancy' in some counties is 53 years, my own grandmother died in her 40s, my grandad in his early 60s (50 years of healthy life)- for many premature death isn't a fear, it's a reality. These deaths are preventable too, but who cares? It's not your kids.

It's only when a crisis is universal and people can't buy their way out of it that collective action is expected. I mean, Prince Charles lecturing people about climate change? Yeah, fuck off mate 😂

sweetieqie · 17/07/2022 15:39

@lemmein why are you bringing up your grandma dying prematurely and why would you care, since 'other countries have a worse life expectancy'.

Also, people definitely do care about poverty, war, crises, I'm not sure where you got it from that they don't. It's gets a lot more attention than climate (naturally, it's an immediate issue).

sweetieqie · 17/07/2022 15:40

These deaths are preventable too, but who cares? It's not your kids.

Why don't you care about the state of the world your children will live in when you're dead? I don't get this attitude. We can't do it all, nobody can, but you seem to think that we shouldn't care which is just odd, sorry.

If you don't have children then fair play to you, but anyone who does- you should care.

Gogster · 17/07/2022 15:44

Sonervousimgonnathrowup · 16/07/2022 14:55

I’ve always taken it seriously, even before it had an direct impact on me.
So much so, that I chose not to have children because of it.
And people roll their eyes at me if I tell why I’m chilfree when THEY ASK.

I can't imagine ever maki g this decision. Doesn't seem rational at all

Dinoteeth · 17/07/2022 16:02

COP26, generated more C02 emissions than Scotland does in a year.

Nothing I personally do will make a real difference.

And I don't know why people go on about SUVs they are mainly the same as MPVs just higher up, easier to get in and out of.

Liebig · 17/07/2022 16:09

Dinoteeth · 17/07/2022 16:02

COP26, generated more C02 emissions than Scotland does in a year.

Nothing I personally do will make a real difference.

And I don't know why people go on about SUVs they are mainly the same as MPVs just higher up, easier to get in and out of.

SUVs are heavier, have AWD or 4x4 transmissions and bulkier chassis and off-road wheel and tyre specs. They're what people who are too image conscious drive because saying "I drive my kids in an S-MAX minivan" doesn't give the social cachet of "I have a Range Rover".

They're fucking stupid and I'll laugh at people bitching over filling them up at £2/litre.

lemmein · 17/07/2022 16:19

sweetieqie · 17/07/2022 15:40

These deaths are preventable too, but who cares? It's not your kids.

Why don't you care about the state of the world your children will live in when you're dead? I don't get this attitude. We can't do it all, nobody can, but you seem to think that we shouldn't care which is just odd, sorry.

If you don't have children then fair play to you, but anyone who does- you should care.

Re: your comment about bringing up my GMs age when she died - I don't care what age she was. I was responding to your comment about premature death by pointing out the privilege in that fear. It's a fairly recent expectation that our children will have long, happy, healthy lives - and even then it's not universal, not even in the same postcodes!

I'm aware you probably find my views as bemusing as I do yours. I find the view that I should care about leaving a better planet for my children slightly ironic when adding to the population in the first place would've significantly increased my households carbon footprint, as did yours 😂 My kids are young adults now; my eldest flies all over Europe for weekend breaks (as do her peers) so I feel my paper straws aren't going to make much difference, even if I was that way inclined.

The planet will keep turning even if we aren't on it, ultimately, it doesn't matter.

malificent7 · 18/07/2022 08:25

I think we should all try doing small things even if we feel they are a drop in the ocean.

I am by no means perfect...i drive ( didn't start till age 30 as i worried about the planet but live in the sticks so have to.)
I eat dairy ...huge polluter.
I eat fish...ocean ecosystems are fucked.
I have a child.
I buy some fast fashion.
I am flying to Greece this summer for my selfish pleasure etc.

But i also try to shop second hand, eat no red meat, recycle, use bamboo instead of plastic,garden with bee loving plants etc.

As a young adult I wanted to be self sufficient...this would be ideal but very difficult.

In a capitalist society the best we can do is vote with our pockets. Boycott unethical brands that pollute. ( Macdonalds...im looking at you!), buy second hand when you can. Avoid excessive packaging etc.
I also thing gardening and growing your own should be taught in schools more but the big businesses don't want us to be self sufficient...they loose ££ . We cannot really be self sufficient anyway ...we need mass production with our huge population but perhaps we can vote with our wallets.

Bubblebubblebah · 18/07/2022 09:46

Most people are doing small things. Problem is that according to some it's never enough.

Btw to being able to buy second hand to feel better, people do need someone to buy the new item first... which is apparently bad though!

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