Would a toddler wet himself on purpose to be naughty ?

[Sweaty84]

DS1 is 3 (only just).

He is a handful. Regular meltdowns and puts up a fight over most things. His speech therapist said he is neurodivergent apparently.

We have managed to potty train him, just about. He now does wees in the potty or loo. (Seems terrified of doing a poo in the potty however).

DH has both DS on Fridays and it's always bloody awful. Much worse than all the other days. He always takes the meltdowns personally and it always escalates. DH is never aggressive but he does get v frustrated. I tell him to calm down.

Anyway today our DS has wet himself 6 times. Every time during a tantrum or when he's being told off. All this week he hasn't had one accident until today.

DH says DS is wetting himself as a protest. Like he's being naughty. He is doing it in defiance. This sounds crazy to me. I think he is doing it because today has been horrible where DS is stressed and he needs cuddles and reassurance even if he has just been naughty

I just don't think a 3 Yr old has the thought process to do something like that to get attention or wind us up.

What do others think?

He won't do this when it's just him and mum as she is admittedly weak

What a strange conclusion to draw. Much more likely - especially given that it sounds as though this child might be autistic - is that he doesn’t do it when it’s just him and Mum because he doesn’t feel dysregulated and distressed when it’s just him and Mum.

And to be honest, any parent that doesn’t go running when their upset child had wet themselves and was sitting in their own pee - no matter what the child’s reason for wetting themselves is, because this is a THREE year old who is entirely reliant on his caregivers for his practical and emotional needs - needs to give their own head a serious shake.

I’ve just given my head a serious shake, and I’m still comfortable that I left my son on the step to complete his time out in his own wee for a whole 60 seconds.
Would you like my details to contact social services?

DH is striding around saying "what am I am fcking meant to do"

Calm down for starters?

Change his son with no comment?

If there's no fuss & Mummy doesn't appear it might stop.

From what you've written here, your husband sounds like an absolute monster.

If your husband doesn't stop being abusive to your autistic child then you need to leave him, or there's a real risk he'll end up inflicting permanent damage on that poor baby.

TheWheeledAvenger

A monster because he disciplines his son when he assaults his mother for no reason?

No wonder there’s so many disgustingly behaved kids around with attitudes like yours.

I’m still comfortable that I left my son on the step to complete his time out in his own wee for a whole 60 seconds.
Would you like my details to contact social services?

Of course not. I just think that’s really sad.

So he can have them 50% of their childhood without me in the room?

I think it’s sad when children are given no clear guidance on boundaries and expectations and reach school and then adulthood without the skills or tools needed.

Your dh has absolutely zero parenting skills - this is what you need to be concentrating on here, and unfortunately the situation will probably only get worse.

There are all kinds of reasons why a kid who is potty trained wets themself. NEVER should they been told off for it though. It sounds like life is v v stressful for your DC at the moment, so I'm not surprised his wetting has increased, whatever the reason

(Don't forget, even though stress seems a logical reason, he may also have a medical reason. My son had 4 urine infections from age 3 to 6 and the symptoms were always the same - wetting himself and irritability/increase in tantrums)

@juniperjump @Lostlostlost3 Thank you for your advice and kind words.

Today he has done some wees in his potty completely of his own choosing.

My DH isn't a monster. He's upset but he is trying, most of the time. Its easy to feel overwhelmed

For example, this morning I had both of the kids. And DS1 gets it his head he wants to brush his teeth. And becomes obsessed with going upstairs and brushing his teeth. I say no. He goes crazy, hits me, throws a glass at the wall, wets himself. Just running round causing absolute destruction while I've got a crying baby in my arms. In the end I get baby in the high chair with some milk and then physically restrain DS1, he's absolutely livid, like he's not even therein his eyes. I then remember about the tip about using what he loves...so I put on Taylor Swift (his latest obsession, the same song over and over) and he stops instantly. Cuddles. We dance together. His whole body relaxes. All over.

But DH would say I'm rewarding the meltdown. He's got mum to himself, cuddles, kisses, his fave song. But surely anything that soothes him is good???

I feel out of my depth. I'm trying so hard but clearing up smashed glass before 7am isn't great start to the day.

I think you're right about finding support.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 🤪🤪

Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime

Absolutely.
and spend their whole school career wondering why they get told off because it’s never happened to them before.

Sweaty84

It does sound incredibly stressful.

I’m 100% with your DH though. Dreadful behaviour resulted in treats and cuddles. What incentive is there for him to behave well when he gets everything he wants by behaving terribly?

I just don't think a 3 Yr old has the thought process to do something like that to get attention or wind us up

Think again. One of mine, at 3yo, would say ‘if you don’t do x (what they wanted) I will wee/poo in my pants’. They could use a toilet but it was definitely a threat that they used and would carry out if they didn’t get what they wanted. They were the only one of mine to do this but the thought process is definitely there with a 3yo. Cunning as shit at that age.

OP, are you on the waiting list for assessment? Sounds as if a diagnosis might be helpful, might enable you to get more support and might spur your partner into becoming a bit better informed.

I think removal from the room/naughty step for 1 minute for pushing/hitting is perfectly normal parenting. However It may not be the right approach for a ?neurodivergent 3 year old in the middle of a meltdown.

Balancing that, even neurodivergent kids have to learn that violence is a no-ño if they can- those that can't leàd pretty restricted lives.

Its a tough balancing act, I'm not surprised you are both finding it hard.

@Smileyaxolotl1 I don't know what the answer is. I honestly don't. But telling him off or putting him on a naughty step just seems to escalate things further. He doesn't seem to learn anything about consequences at all. And being told off makes him more violent, not less.

Also someone said before that maybe he's just hungry. I promise that boy has more food than me. He asks for snacks obsessively with more extravagant demands.."4 box raisins and bananas and honey in bowl. Blue bowl. Eat with fork." Etc 😓

Should have added the one of mine who did that had ASD (later diagnosed). Just because a kid has ASD, don’t think they can’t be cunning, that’s selling them really short.

‘He asks for snacks obsessively with more extravagant demands.."4 box raisins and bananas and honey in bowl. Blue bowl. Eat with fork." Etc’

and does he get these things?
presumably not all the time as that what started the issue you first discussed.

my now 5 year old was very similar to your son when she was 3/4 - lots of demands, everything had to be exactly as she wanted or a tantrum ensued. He’s not necessarily ND.

I think it’s sad when children are given no clear guidance on boundaries and expectations and reach school and then adulthood without the skills or tools needed.

So do I. Absolutely. Nowhere have I said anything to the contrary. But that’s entirely achievable without leaving them to sit in their own wee; or indeed using time outs at all.

I then remember about the tip about using what he loves...so I put on Taylor Swift (his latest obsession, the same song over and over) and he stops instantly. Cuddles. We dance together. His whole body relaxes. All over.

Result OP. You’re not rewarding a meltdown. You’re soothing a child in intense distress. When he’s calm, you can talk about the inappropriate behaviour. He literally cannot learn when he’s that dysregulated.

I have 2 ND children and LOL at being able to hold wee.

Ds was still in nappies at 4 Dd was 3.5 before she was out of nappies but needed the toilet wherever we were every few minutes.
All those talking about how children can manipulate adults at 3 years old.
This child isn’t a NT 3year old. Knock a couple of years off and then look at this from the perspective of the child being a 1 year old and then add in the dh’s behaviour and then come back and say the child is manipulative.

I suspect the Dh doesn’t think his behaviour has to change . He just expects that if he shouts loud enough and punishes hard enough them Ds will submit. His way is the
only way to deal with anything.
Hence why he picked up Ds to shout at him and punish him when it was his mum who the Ds had pushed and it was his mum who should have responded not the father.
How hard a push can a 3 year old give an adult anyway

Your dh’s shouting and punishments isn’t working
If it was working then Dh wouldn’t be shouting and punishing.

You’re rewarding violence. That’s all he will understand. If he tantrums enough and uses violence mum puts down the baby and completely indulges him.
You need to find a happy medium between yours and your husband’s parenting techniques.
Just a short, simple explanation about why he’s being put on the step, then calmly leading him there and leaving.
There doesn’t need to be screaming or shouting by the adults but he needs to know that hitting you won’t result in him getting to dance around the kitchen with you.

So what would you have done with a ND child of 3 who did this.

It is obvious that shouting and punishment isn’t working.

Interested to know what you would have done?

I had days like these and did exactly the same as op by ignoring the bad behaviour and using distraction and cuddling to help manage emotions.

"Just a short, simple explanation about why he’s being put on the step, then calmly leading him there and leaving."

@Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime He wouldn't be able to hear me. He is screaming. Throwing himself against the wall. Of course I have tried millions of times to calmly explain to him to not do things. It would be like telling an obscenely drunk person to behave differently...its like he can't hear me.