Would a toddler wet himself on purpose to be naughty ?

[Sweaty84]

DS1 is 3 (only just).

He is a handful. Regular meltdowns and puts up a fight over most things. His speech therapist said he is neurodivergent apparently.

We have managed to potty train him, just about. He now does wees in the potty or loo. (Seems terrified of doing a poo in the potty however).

DH has both DS on Fridays and it's always bloody awful. Much worse than all the other days. He always takes the meltdowns personally and it always escalates. DH is never aggressive but he does get v frustrated. I tell him to calm down.

Anyway today our DS has wet himself 6 times. Every time during a tantrum or when he's being told off. All this week he hasn't had one accident until today.

DH says DS is wetting himself as a protest. Like he's being naughty. He is doing it in defiance. This sounds crazy to me. I think he is doing it because today has been horrible where DS is stressed and he needs cuddles and reassurance even if he has just been naughty

I just don't think a 3 Yr old has the thought process to do something like that to get attention or wind us up.

What do others think?

Sounds to me like your child doesn't have any issues with the notion of potty training. The issue seems to be your husband and how your child reacts around him.

If he's only wetting himself on days when your husband is his sole carer then your husband needs to look long and hard at himself and his behaviour.

My eldest used to lose control of her bladder when she was having a screaming tantrum around the age of 3. It didn't last a long time but it was upsetting for everyone as she really lost it. We found it was frustration about things and sometimes not being able to communicate in the way that she wanted to (no speech issues here, just a brain that was probably more ahead than the words needed)

If your husband keeps doing what he's currently doing, he's going to get the same result he's got right now.

Instead of punishing your son and removing him to another room for whatever he's deemed to have done, why not get down to his level and calmly speak to him and tell him not to do it and the reason why. There can be natural consequences that don't mean your child is losing control of their bladder through stress

They can do it on purpose for attention yes but they will also do it inadvertently when anxious, stressed, frightened, excited, over tired ie all sorts of reasons cause a genuine loss of control. So as you describe it I think he is unlikely expressly purposeful to seek attention. Your husband needs to learn to promote a calm happy atmosphere and I bet
It gets much better.

It sounds like your husband needs to pick his battles and step back a bit. Like pp say, he's taking your child's quite age-typical behaviour personally and making your DS out in his head to be some sort of demon infant intent on deliberately making his life difficult. He needs to parent much more positively.

My 3yo did lots of protest poos and wees when I was busy with her newborn little sister (one memorable poo over the side of the bath onto the floor), but equally I know that if toddlers are upset, any wee ends up coming out I think because the force of the crying seems to squeeze the bladder.

Gosh I feel for you OP (and your DS). You sound like a good mum trying to do your best with a tricky parenting partner.

TBH it doesn't matter if your son can or cannot wet himself 'deliberately'. He's 3. His 'deliberate' actions are never going to be at the cold hearted manipulative level of oh ha ha, this will really annoy them.

IF he can control his bladder (I make no judgement, it sounds like from PPs that some can/ some can't), then he's likely wetting himself to express an emotion (fear) or to get a response (mum coming and being kind to him). Neither of those things are manipulative or not understandable or are going to be 'fixed' by his dad shouting at him or getting annoyed. (but you know that already, I know).

I don't know how open your DH is to changing his parenting style but Philippa Perry's book 'the book you wish your parents had read' (or something like that) is good and digs deep into why certain things might really annoy or frustrate as parents, and how to move beyond that.

Good luck/take care

Sounds like you have a dh problem not a ds problem! If his behaviour is much worse with your dh then there will be a reason for it.
3 is still very young to have such harsh punishments.

Yes. He’s four in September. He hasn’t done it in months. ☺️

I think some kids can and do (generally older) but in general no I think it sounds like your child is wetting himself in distress.

He doesn't have accidents at nursery. Just with us. He definitely struggles with his baby brother getting attention and often will try and go my boobs out to try and bite them to copy his brother. And if I'm busy doing something he will push something over.

I just take the calm and reassuring approach which DH says is giving him attention when he's doing the wrong thing. DH doesn't like to shout. He knows it's wrong. But he also thinks our DS is very aware of his actions and when he pushes people, throws his toys, or indeed wets himself - DS needs a stern response.

I mean we are probs both giving him attention for the wrong things. We do shower him with praise when he's doing well and I've just spent the last ten mins cuddling and singing with him as he falls asleep. Pls don't think he's some distressed scared boy. He isn't. But DH seems to be going into battle with him and everything is going in wrong direction behaviour wise

When I talk to DH he just tells me to "do it my way then" and huffs and puffs. Not that he means that.

He's gone down to 4 days a week to spend more time with both DS and it seems to making all of them miserable

(I'm meant to be WFH today btw. And have spent most of it mopping up tears and piss)

One of mine used to wet themselves if they wanted to go home and we weren't going home when they wanted. (eg on a shopping trip). It started after one time when we were going somewhere they wanted (the park) and they wet themselves on the way, so we went home to get changed and then it was too late to go back.

Once I'd done a few times of "oh dear, I have a change here" and they didn't get to go home it stopped.

Mind you, the same one used to do wees two drops at a time when potty training because I gave a chocolate button for a wee in the potty. The other two it worked well for. That one would sit on the potty, do a tiny dribble, get her reward and go back and do a bit more, and claim another... and another. I was never sure whether to be impressed with her control 🤣
Now a teenager they still have similar attitude.

Toddlers can be , erm, difficult. Quite possible that he knows exactly what he's doing & why.

I would forget about toilet training for a few weeks. Put him in pull ups, and then gradually reintroduce the potty later on. He'll get there in the end.

Have you looked up what neurodivergent means? Can be Autism, ADHD, anxiety, depression and others. Think you need to talk to Sprrch Therapist about the next step to get help. Poor little boy

Its sounds like your DH is the issue. Can you be clearer... did your DS wee himself 6 times in one day?

It’s not naughtiness it’s a way of exerting control or demonstrating distress but not at all in a negative way. I bet you your strategy of cuddles and reassurance is more effective than anything punitive and always will be.

Mumsnet is brilliant at showing me exactly why I have to teach such terribly behaved children who have never heard the word ‘no’ in their lives and have mums who constantly justify their shocking behaviour.

The child isn’t ‘worse behaved’ with dad. Dad has boundaries and mum lets him do whatever he likes with no consequences at all. When the child assaulted her for refusing to give him what he wanted dad put uim
in time out for 1 minute - a perfectly reasonable consequence. Mum much prefers to reward bad behaviour with cuddles.

My husband vividly remembers his dad pissing him off at around age 3 and him deliberately doing a poo in his nappy as an act of revenge 😂 so I guess YABU!

It sounds to me that you have a little 3 year old boy who has some communication issues (as he has a speech therapist), who is suspected to be neurodiverse. He has recently had a new baby brother and his dad has started looking after him (without you there) on Fridays. So lots of changes in his life, which is difficult for toddlers and even more so if he is ND.

He doesn’t wet himself at nursery, which is his constant, where I presume there is a routine that he is used to. I don’t think he is wetting himself to be manipulative. It may be anxiety or it may be his way of trying to gain a bit of control in his life that has had so much change. It also sounds as if the pushing incident may have happened at a time when he was tired and hungry which will always be a bad mix. I would definitely ask for a referral for assessment for him and a parenting course for Dh.

Why not just put him in a nappy when Dad looks after him? Then he can protest wee as much as he likes and nothing will happen. He will learn weeing won't get Mum running to him. You are not working as a team. You sound over indulgent and your DH sounds short of patience. Your son is playing you off against each other and you running to him are letting him get away with it.

I agree with this. You’re all getting very fraught and a 3 year old is hardly likely to say, ‘actually, father, I need a wee first ’ before he’s put in another room as a punishment.

Every time my 3 year old goes into time out he wets himself! Never does it at any other time

Genuinely cannot understand the views of some people on here. Hoping they are all older parents/ grandparents. There is new research out there about child development, growth and communication. When we know better, we do better.

OP, I have a three year old neurodiverse son. He has challenged me beyond belief and our parenting is far from what I thought it would be. However, our home is calm, we have boundaries but we absolutely don't shout or put our son in other rooms.

It is also absolutely normal for an ND child to go through periods of regression with new skills learnt.

Your son is communicating through his behaviour. You sound like a lovely, caring mum. Please look up ways to help your husband support him.

Those who read the post, saw that this child could be neurodivergent and posted about manipulation and bad behaviour, give your head a fucking shake.

Amen to this.

Finally, a voice of reason @Lostlostlost3

@Smileyaxolotl1 But the child is ‘worse behaved’ with Dad. (I’m using quotation marks because I don’t see this as bad behaviour at all.) What Dad is doing is not working. With Dad he wets himself, with Dad he tantrums. Not/less so with Mum. Not because Mum has no boundaries. Because he feels safe with Mum.
It’s not about not saying no. It’s about saying no, and much more importantly teaching the appropriate behaviour, in a way that doesn’t shame/scare the child such that they’re not actually in a place to learn.

I wet myself on purpose as a three year old in nursery because their spare knickers had cool characters on whereas I had plain boring ones. Mum started sending me in with knickers from home and I stopped.

So yes, kids can wet themselves on purpose for all sorts of strange reasons. Your DS might have been doing that to distract from a telling off or to get a reaction, or they might have been true accidents.