Would a toddler wet himself on purpose to be naughty ?

[Sweaty84]

DS1 is 3 (only just).

He is a handful. Regular meltdowns and puts up a fight over most things. His speech therapist said he is neurodivergent apparently.

We have managed to potty train him, just about. He now does wees in the potty or loo. (Seems terrified of doing a poo in the potty however).

DH has both DS on Fridays and it's always bloody awful. Much worse than all the other days. He always takes the meltdowns personally and it always escalates. DH is never aggressive but he does get v frustrated. I tell him to calm down.

Anyway today our DS has wet himself 6 times. Every time during a tantrum or when he's being told off. All this week he hasn't had one accident until today.

DH says DS is wetting himself as a protest. Like he's being naughty. He is doing it in defiance. This sounds crazy to me. I think he is doing it because today has been horrible where DS is stressed and he needs cuddles and reassurance even if he has just been naughty

I just don't think a 3 Yr old has the thought process to do something like that to get attention or wind us up.

What do others think?

Some do. Seems quite young tho.

What twaddle, it's been shown children from 18 months can 'manipulate' and know how certain actions from them get certain reactions from their caregivers.

3 year olds are not toddlers. Toddlerhood ends on their 3rd birthday.
Of course they are doing it for attention/ to get a reaction.

Absolutely some children do use wetting or messing themselves as a protest. It's not "naughty" at this age though, it's trying to exert a timy bit of control in a life where they have none.

It is distressing. DH says "when DS pushes you we need to take him away by himself". I guess just putting him on the naughty step by insisting he's taken into another room. I agree about the shouting. I do tell him and he agrees but in the moment he raises his voice. I don't have very gd alternatives strategy as I ignore his tantrum and then give him a cuddle when he stops but I do feel like I'm not teaching him boundaries.

I think there is a lot we need to improve. But right now we are disagreeing about whether a toddler is able to wet himself on demand in protest at being told no. I just don't think that's likely.

And yes I do come running when he wets himself to tell him not to worry and clean it up.

It really is, poor boy. He's a bully.

Of course children can do things out of protest, or to get attention

Your child wanted your attention, he was taken to another room, knows if he wets himself mummy will come running so does it.

How can you really not see the correlation here?

I think that they can wet themselves for attention but the incident you describe sounds like it could be fear? Adults wouldn't like a much bigger person shouting at them and kids are they same. Kids can't hear the words you say when they are having a tantrum /overwhelmed. The talking and teaching comes after they calm down and can process what is being said. I suspect that this is exactly the same for ND kids too. Can Dad really not imagine how someone as angry as your son is at that moment losing bladder control?

Learning how to communicate needs in a way that your caregiver can understand and respond to isn’t technically “manipulation”.

I think it's entirely possible that kids can wee in protest. My dd waged a pooing-herself campaign that started when dc2 was born and lasted several months until I deliberately changed tack and showed absolutely no emotional response to her "accidents" . The accidents stopped within 12 hours. I have absolutely no doubt that she had worked out this was a brilliant way to get me focused on her.

@alphapie There's an enormous difference between knowing that a certain action gets a certain reaction and what OP has described her husband is suggesting.

Your DH is wrong, wrong, wrong!! He thinks this because he can’t understand the child’s struggles, can’t cope with him and it’s easier to imagine the child is being naughty.
I would be seriously worried about his dad having overnight contact or unsupervised contact actually. You don’t see them alone together. He may be very frightening for an anxious child.

There really isn't, knowing cause and effect and manipulating that to get what you want is exactly that, manipulation.

I don't agree it's 'naughty' but let's not pretend he isn't pissing himself so mum comes running. When that's what he knows will happen

My daughter had a week at nursery when she was three where she wet herself every day and we couldn’t figure out why. She’d have an accident and the staff would change her clothes and, for some reason, put on a spare pair of wellies the nursery kept. On the Friday when they changed her after another accident they put on the spare shoes from her bag and she cried that she wanted the wellies. That’s when we all realised that she was deliberately wetting herself to get to wear the wellies!

A meltdown is not a tantrum. It’s a total overload of the senses. My intelligent, articulate 20 year old becomes non verbal spouting gibberish. My teen son becomes so overwhelmed he has no idea what is going on around him.

That is what your little 3 year old is experiencing. He is likely losing control of his bodily functions.

@Discovereads it is, learning if I do x mum will do y, and doing x to get attention is manipulation.

Your DH is scaring him

They very most definitely can do it on purpose out of protest. 100%

Agree.

Developmentally a toddler isn't able to be manipulative or do things like this purposefully. It's more likely, if when being told off or tantruming, that his brain is then focusing on that and not keeping dry. If your partner could stay calm with him and exercise restraint, then toddler will likely be calmer and this wouldn't happen as much.

3 year old can misbehave.

But what it sounds like here is that your son is terrified of their father and the weeing is involuntary and from fear.

Children can and do manipulate adults.

My DB used to wee himself on purpose to get sent home from school, he was about 5 or 6 at the time. I think my parents eventually clocked on and sent him in with spare clothes. He freely admits now he did it on purpose. Not to be naughty as such - a bit like pulling a sicky, he just couldn’t be bothered with the work. So, yes children might do so on purpose. But in this situation it sounds like he was just upset. My DS has wet himself when he was upset - nothing major had happened but if children are holding in a wee to the last minute as they do and nearly need to go and then get upset I think bladder to brain messages can get interrupted.

@Newmumatlast I really do wish people would stop posting absolute BS.

Children can manipulate from 15 months, developmentally it's totally in line for a 2-3 year old to do this.

Yes they definitely could. My ds used to do it around that age, he would wet himself if he wasn't getting his own way. This whole idea that small children don't know how to manipulate their parents is ridiculous, of course they do 🤣

Reading your example I'd say your son is doing it for attention. Perhaps not to be naughty but just in response to being told off.
At 3 he absolutely knows he shouldn't be hitting or pushing so I think your DH was right.