Would a toddler wet himself on purpose to be naughty ?

[Sweaty84]

DS1 is 3 (only just).

He is a handful. Regular meltdowns and puts up a fight over most things. His speech therapist said he is neurodivergent apparently.

We have managed to potty train him, just about. He now does wees in the potty or loo. (Seems terrified of doing a poo in the potty however).

DH has both DS on Fridays and it's always bloody awful. Much worse than all the other days. He always takes the meltdowns personally and it always escalates. DH is never aggressive but he does get v frustrated. I tell him to calm down.

Anyway today our DS has wet himself 6 times. Every time during a tantrum or when he's being told off. All this week he hasn't had one accident until today.

DH says DS is wetting himself as a protest. Like he's being naughty. He is doing it in defiance. This sounds crazy to me. I think he is doing it because today has been horrible where DS is stressed and he needs cuddles and reassurance even if he has just been naughty

I just don't think a 3 Yr old has the thought process to do something like that to get attention or wind us up.

What do others think?

It’s absolutely not on to shout at a child over any kind of toilet training accident.

As a separate issue though, some children have the understanding to be able to do things ‘on purpose’ at 2.5/3 and some don’t. My 2.5 year old (she’s much older now!) said to nursery that she didn’t feel well, over and over until they sent her home. When I got her home, she was absolutely fine- she informed me she’d ‘said I was sick so I could see my new bunk bed.’ 🙄 (stupidly, I’d told her that it was arriving that day).

This is a very aggressive way to deal with this sort of misbehaviour from a 3 year old. What happened to giving a calm warning to encourage your DS to stop the behaviour and apologise? Does he always escalate and meet aggression with aggression? If so, it wouldn't be surprising if this is making your DS both aggressive and anxious.

re toilet training, they don’t always get it first time especially if they’re not not entirely ready. Some children take a long time to get it. Is there lots of upset/raised voices/disappointment etc when he doesn’t pee in the potty? He could have a negative association with the potty depending on how things have been handled. I know some people are happy to find nefarious reasons for a child’s behaviour, but even if they are doing it to get attention/what they want the best way to deal with it is to ignore it. Ignore the bad and praise the good.

Op it is totally normal for 3 year old to have a regression with potty training. It is also normal for them to wet themselves in certain situations, my ds used to hold on for a very long time because he was busy /having too much fun and had accidents way past 5y/o.

You mention he is seeing a speech therapist who said he was apparently neurodiverse. I would strongly recommend finding out what that meant and getting the appropriate professional diagnosis so you can understand how this might impact behaviour. If someone with that sort of experience is telling you then listen.

There could be all sorts of factors making his behaviour harder to manage. How well does he talk? Is the pushing you because he is unable to vocalise his frustration that he couldn't have a snack? I think all that is needed here is a 'no thank you we don't hit' and then redirect him to something else. The putting him in another room is clearly very distressing for him.

Well the accidents this morning could be in protest/fear of being with his dad.

This evening could be because he was so engrossed in playing/tired.

A child that age lacks the ability to hold in wee for any length of time.

This isnt true

lots of children can hold a bit at age 3. DD isnt 3 for another month and can hold for a few mins if there's not a toilet to hand. She might (sorry, tmi) drip a bit, but she wouldnt fully wet herself.

My niece used to deliberately wet herself when put on the naughty step at 3. She used to laugh about it. It was 100% deliberate and conscious.

I think your last sentence here might be key. He wants you and your attention. You come and give reassurance as opposed to an angry dad. I do think a 3 year old is capable of using toileting in this way, as a protest etc. But don't agree that it's 'naughty'. They have very little say in things and this is an element they can control. Your dh needs to find better strategies. Anger and shouting is not ideal.

To my mind a few minutes with drips isn’t holding in your wee.

I just don't think a 3 Yr old has the thought process to do something like that to get attention or wind us up.

Also lol at this. Of course 3 year olds have the thought process to do stuff to get attention/wind up parents. This is pretty much their sole purpose in life.

My autistic DD had a phase of doing this at the same age. I absolutely agree some three year olds probably do wet themselves on purpose, but based on the description of your son, I suspect he, like my DD, simply loses control of his bladder when he has a meltdown. And your DH, by separating him from you at the moment he needs you, is making it worse. Shouting at an ND child while they’re having a meltdown is NEVER going to work.

Two single drops of wee in a 2 year olds pants after holding 10 mins is holding it.its bladder control.

Jesus I can barely hold 10 mins myself if I've had a big drink of squash or something.

Is your DH really able to look after both children and is there any alternative. Sometimes it's best just to accept that the stresses of childcare are too much for some people. The story you relate is actually very distressing and I wouldn't want to put my child through this.

I'm not sure that's what is happening here it's hard to say, but they definitely can and it's normal at bed time when you start potty training. My ds, 2.5 Yr old at the time, was annoyed when I wouldn't take him for his third wee in five minutes as a bed time delaying tactic and looked me right in the eye as he squeezed out half a teaspoon of wee into his pants. He definitely did it deliberately but that would only happen at bedtime. My potty training book mention they cotton on to this fast when taking them out of nappies at night so they certainly are able to. There's a well known freakomics clip about a 3 Yr old squeezing out little wees and poos as she knew she got a smartie every time she did one on the potty.

Ah, they didn’t say 10mins they said “a few minutes” few= 3-4mins. Not 10. And no, getting drips of wee is not bladder control imho. It’s mild incontinence. An adult would be considering incontinence liners for their pants.

I suppose then the question is why this child feels the need to wet himself 6 times in one day when in his fathers care and us perfectly fine with his mother and why every time he gets looked after by his father op describes it as horrific.

We can't tell from OPs post but my instant assumption would be that the child gets their own way/gets what they want with mother, and doesn't with father, so is more challenging.

Your DH put your 3 year old in the other room, left him there AND shouted. Way too much. A grown man doesn’t need to shout at a 3 year old plus other punishments.

@InChocolateWeTrust I guess what I meant DH seems to think DS is thinking "those horrible parents telling me I can't have a snack, I'll wet myself so they have to tidy it up. Hahaha". And I see a little boy in distress or who is having a terrible day

But it's a fucking 2 year old Discoveread.

It's really common for young kids to leak a bit when holding
It's why infant school classrooms always smell of piss.

So he wets when with DH (multiple times today) and when he does you come running to sort him out and clean him up, but he's also wetting when just randomly playing and being happy tonight? It sounds like he just isn't fully potty trained, and either the routine from having you all week to DH on Fridays is unsettling him, or he's learnt that by doing that behaviour he gets mum! We used to have a young girl when I worked in early years who knew if she wet, she'd be taken out of the main room to be sorted out and changed into her spare clothes (usually a set of pjs or similar clothes) - she used to do it all the time, her mum sent her in with different clothes to get changed into a few times and she magically stopped! At 3 children can definitely figure out correlation.

My fucking point exactly, a 2-3yr old is often too young to have full bladder control and the slightest stress can cause them to wet themselves, ergo it’s not a malicious deliberate ploy by the DC in the story to manipulate his parents.

What is your husband hoping to achieve by doing that? And how does he think it's going?

Or they are afraid of the shouty a father who likes to shut them up in rooms all alone and so the distress makes them less able to control their bladders.

Thats an issue then, that’s the issue that needs to be addressed. Why such a need for attention?

OP, I’d say you need to hold off on the potty training for a bit. It’s turning into a fight and that’s not the way to do it.

Stop your DH shouting at your toddler and see if the wetting stops.

I'm with you on this.

My DB was the toddler from hell (I'm nearly 10 years older, so remember it well). If our DM was trying to get him to do something, or stop him from doing something mand he was in an unco-operative mood, he used to look her in they in the eye and piss his pants, with a big grin on his face.