To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

Have you done any research into the damage that is done by "Tiger Parenting"? There's shed loads of research on how the children suffer high levels of depressive illnesses, alienation from family and parents, and feelings of failure and self-loathing. That doesn't mean that parents shouldn't be supportive or encouraging to their children's learning. Education is important but it isn't everything.

Do you think its because native British people are able to scale back their expectations. You see it a lot on Mumsnet.

What I see is British people tend to write themselves off because of "class". And yes, i see that a lot of Mumsnet. Like -- "you can't possibly expect me to READ BOOKS after work with my kids, we're POOR!" then turn aroung and complain about unfair advantages for "middle class kids"

@CrappyNHappy I know you didn't ask me, but I do a lot with my 5-year-old while I'm cooking dinner. I don't need to be hovering over him, but am on hand to help with his writing and spelling. DP does numeracy at least 3 mornings a week with him (on weekends and one WFH day before work), Reading and talking about the books we read every night before bedtime. We make learning fun and no pressure, but he knows that there is something to do every day. There's zero screen time until he's done. It helps a lot if your husband is on board and pulling their weight.

@onthefencesitter I think very broadly, native British are used to having lower expectations about most things, but they also don't like people who succeed or make money. In many countries, success and ambition are celebrated, here, not so much. As an aside. when I moved to London 10 years ago, I lived in Golders Green and have some nice memories from up there.

@Jalisco this is true. We do a lot at home with our child, privately educated him, and hold high expectations of him, but we are very careful and very intentionally do not equate love/happiness etc...with any kind of "achievement." He's still very young, and we want him to develop curiosity and a love of learning most of all.

tiger parenting is a bit of a caricature even in Asian countries. I see it as a bit boastful tbh. most people are not that crazy. Or they exaggerate a lot.

Btw even the lady who wrote battle hymn of the tiger mother said the book was a bit tongue in cheek. I think she exaggerated a lot of it. Her daughters had boyfriends in high school and they had movie nights. Her father was a pretty chill guy and was the counterbalance.

I'm glad I figured it out now while my kids are still young, I can make a difference & I need to... I'm delighted they have so many children from immigrant backgrounds in their classes, those children are raising the bar, their parents aren't accepting mediocre or good from the school & have no problem questioning everything 😁 also behaviour issues really aren't an issue as the kids themselves want to learn... I think many British parents like myself can learn so much from these parents even by observation, it's made me really question my beliefs & see DH & I really aren't doing our best of dc in the long run...

no way do those parents casually throw away a week’s schooling because it’s hot outside… that attitude is utterly alien to me.

They wouldn't because its hot and they can't be arsed, but they totally would to visit extended family. As I said up thread, other countries have much longer holidays.

they also don't like people who succeed or make money

There is resentment of those who didn't work hard for their success, but had inherited privilege. I think you'll find similar attitude outside of UK too.

also behaviour issues really aren't an issue as the kids themselves want to learn

Sorry but that just isn't true.

There is a wide variety of behaviours in all cultures and children.

This thread is full of huge sweeping statements.

Yep, I’m Asian and I have two siblings, one of us was very well behaved, the other two weren’t, I was in detention in a regular basis and had a fair few exclusions.

That's really interesting.. I would say the British kids parents are the least aspirational in the dc's classes, myself included (but I'm reformed now!)

Firstly love the username & secondly you & DH sound like wonderful parents, best of luck to your DC x
I'm so glad I started this thread, I genuinely thought I was going to be flamed for highlighting the lack of aspiration in our schools (as I repeatedly said me included) & the honest responses have been so encouraging. My socks are well & truely pulled up, my lovely dc needs me to do better for them 🥰

’I'm a teacher but I’m not remotely interested in pushing my children. I’ll support, but far more interested in them being decent people with the skills to find happiness. All this coaching and tutoring is just utterly bewildering to me.

Me too, I was very pleased with my dd10 school report that said she tries her best especially as she is autistic, but reading this thread that would be horrific to many of the posters here!

I'm glad I figured it out now while my kids are still young, I can make a difference & I need to... I'm delighted they have so many children from immigrant backgrounds in their classes, those children are raising the bar, their parents aren't accepting mediocre or good from the school & have no problem questioning everything 😁 also behaviour issues really aren't an issue as the kids themselves want to learn... I think many British parents like myself can learn so much from these parents even by observation, it's made me really question my beliefs & see DH & I really aren't doing our best of dc in the long run...

Could you suck up anymore?? We get it you love the way immigrants raise their children.

I agree though many parents are very much involved we have become a child centred society

in some cultures there is no or little discussion around what a child may want to do in their life the expectation is they work hard at school (many parents have had to make huge sacrifices to give them a better life like leaving their families as we are often reminded) become a professional/wealthy through hard work and help support their family

A friend asked me why a colleague of ours was allowing her son (21) to go wondering around the world to experience other cultures and find himself 😆 (she is Nigerian) other colleagues agreed (no surprise that were not from British background) it’s just considered strange in some cultures that you are not always striving to improve your life

This is my town it’s a good place to have a family - if you can afford it, house prices are high, social housing is good too, my youngest son has just moved into a brand new 2 bed semi after a year in private rented.

That statistic has been parroted out and believed . It is spun by the government for a range of reasons. It's not true and depends entirely on how you disaggregate various ethnic minority groups, which the sewage Sewell report did to 'prove' structural and institutional racism don't exist.

There is a lot to unpick here. Education is extremely important and of course those from immigrant backgrounds are going to be more motivated to succeed in the U.K. It takes courage and determination to uproot your life and move abroad for a better life. The British middle classes are often obsessed with their kids education too though!

Kids need pushing but I also don’t think it’s wise to pressure kids like some of the descriptions in this post, maybe they’ll end up with good grades (or very average ones) but they’ll grow up believing their worth is based on their academic performance but they’ll also have terrible self esteem, anxiety and generally poor mental health.
As we most things in life it’s about balance, giving kids the opportunities to try different things and playing to their strengths.

My partner is German and went to a gymnasium (German Grammar) he’s extremely creative and artistic but that was never encouraged, it was a solely academic focus, he feels he really missed out by not being able to peruse an artistic route.

We have a much broader approach to education here. There’s a reason we have such a thriving creative industry in this country. We are also getting better at recognising things like dyslexia and that different children learn in different ways.

I agree our schools could do better ( there is always room for improvement) and we should be teaching a second language from an early age.

I must have been brought up and live in aspirational neighbourhoods in London, as the white British kids were the ones who mothers read books with them from when they were babies. Some of these mothers are/were single mothers too.

The bigger issue I find - and which schools needed to address and have done - is that lots of working class kids of many ethnicities thought that further or higher education wasn't for them.

So I know families where older children who were capable didn't go into an sort of further or higher education there as their young siblings did. This means I know families where the older adult children do manual jobs and semi-skilled jobs there as the younger ones do professional ones.

Definitely, a number of poor schools (in poor areas) near me have significantly improved performance which they put down in part due to the influx of immigrant families and kids who take education seriously.

I'm speaking about the dc's in my children's classes

Another key piece of advice I would give is that parents should drastically limit screen time- especially for boys.

Screen time should be a privilege that has to be earned through studying and excellent grades.

My DC have to earn an age appropriate amount of screen time through completing their study. Because they're not used to having lots of screen time, this works well.

For example, DS2 (year 6) only gets 1 hour a day on weekdays and 2 hours a day at weekends.

I wouldnt say it’s about ‘education’ = grades alone. More of an achievement culture.
A lot of people are proud of not knowing anything other than what’s in TV. No respect for anything artistic or intellectual, no curiosity.

With the cuts in govennrment funding etc it’s a battle for SEN parents. Again it’s the parents who value education who advocate, sacrifice so that they can hire private help for their children. Spend time teaching their own children. Making up for the underfunding (and consequently lack of individual focus) in UK schools.

The ones who don’t care and don’t see why grades matter just ‘accept’ their kids are ‘stupid’ and don’t bother.

Another key piece of advice I would give is that parents should drastically limit screen time- especially for boys.
Screen time should be a privilege that has to be earned through studying and excellent grades.

I don't disagree but sometimes the help is on screens.

There are many excellent educational apps out there and sometime they can feel like play - I'm thinking dragon box and teach your Monster how to read - and even less fun one can free a parent up to work with other kids or do tea - around but only if needed.

Also the key thing really is parental involvement, rather than the specifics of what they actually do. Whether it’s taking kids to museums or being tiger mums.

Plenty of parents think that educating the children is 100% the job of schools. They bristle at being asked to do anything extra. Of course there are limits, if children have parents who are incapable of helping they’re disadvantaged. and not everyone has time to make 100 costumes.

But even my illiterate grandmother attempted to help educate her children by getting them books, talking to teachers about competitions etc. She couldn’t guide them, but she scrimped to get them what they needed.

It’s the outlook really