To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

I’ve voted YANBU, but that’s not meant to be a criticism of the teachers, who have an impossible job. It’s the underfunded and undervalued system coupled with parents who are working themselves into a state of anxiety and depression just to pay the bills, with no headspace left over for anything else.

I just feel the British culture is slightly less aspirational when it comes to education & we're happy not to push our kids as long as they're happy & keeping their head above water..
Maybe due to globalisation we need to become more aspirational so our kids can compete on a level playing field..?
This is not a state /private debate.. The families I mentioned above are in my dc's classes in a state school.

YANBU, from talking to parents from other cultures around this topic they usually think it's because we are generationally so used to education being free, and to a degree education not being necessary to get a decent job.

In many countries if you are uneducated you will live in poverty and not be able to find meaningful or well paid work. Or education isn't free so parents have to be invested as it's a waste otherwise.

Our education and welfare system eradicates the two biggest drivers for parents being invested in their child's education.

Worth remembering too that a good number of these kids will be first, second or third generation migrants to the UK.

Living in a culture outside your the one you were born into, particularly when your skin is a different colour, it's a lot easier to 'get by' if you excel at school.

Parents who are settling into the country will push their kids to do as well as possible to 'prove' themselves, to level a racist and unequal playing field, and to give their kids a better life than they had (which of course many UK parents want to do too). Some of it is the culture their families are coming from, and some of it will be trying to survive in a culture that isn't the one you were born into.

I live in Spain and the same can be said here for migrant parents vs. the Spanish parents – it's often part of 'outsider' identity.

I'm from another country and very much agree with you. It's one of the reasons we decided to go private. My ds is getting the all rounded education and exposure there. I have many friends who are happy with their kids in really good state schools, but on comparing they don't come close to the private sector at my ds level. As pp said underfunded and a stretched teacher pupil ratio is a huge factor.

Must be area dependent I don’t see that here - state and private

But for former you get parents invested in buying state through house prices and continuing in same vein. With private it’s usually paying for prep and or tutors for top school and all the extras

I don't know... I mean in Mexico they see education as a way of social climbing. But IME I don't think parents are that involved/interested in their kids' education they'd probably see it as the teacher's job. I'm most certainly very hands off

It depends on the culture . I’m in NZ and I feel the same about people from other cultures. The primary years are learning through fun here, and developing them as a whole person , rather than rote learning and testing - at my daughter’s school homework is optional so I take her to activities instead. People from other cultures I meet, including newly arrived Brits seem concerned with academics over other things and there seems to be a competetiveness . Maybe it comes from being in a new environment and needing to make up for that? I’ve been here for so long now I can relax as kind of know how it all works- lots of “ who you know” opportunities .

You're likely to get a pasting on MN for this but yes, I agree. I think in the UK many parents just see it as childcare, and the only thing they get agitated about are things that prevent the kids from being looked after elsewhere from 9-3. Inset days, strikes, school closures are all commonly complained about but underfunding of schools, behaviour issues, class sizes, teacher shortages, the curriculum - far less pressing.

I taught in East Asia and it was a completely different ballgame. I'd never teach here.

Personally I find it very interesting, the parents are absolutely lovely but education is what school is for...
One Polish mother said openly about y1 "what do they do all day? School is for learning, fun is for the playground"! It's a different mentality... Also there doesn't seem to be the whole panic about socialisation & playdates/sleepovers etc that us uk parents had after covid restrictions were lifted... The immigrant kids always come to the birthday parties & reciprocate invites /ask their friends but education /music/extracurricular seems vastly more important than playing with friends...

The UK has essentially caused aspiration to be pointless for many, your average working class child can work their arse off only to be living on value noodles at university to leave with £50 of debt. They then often can’t afford to move to where graduate jobs are available and their families can’t afford to help them with rent etc.

The UK is basically set up to keep the poor in their place.

education /music/extracurricular seems vastly more important

I definitely know U.K. parents who care a lot and their dc do music and extracurricular to high level.

I‘m in London though near an area well known for good schools. Maybe different elsewhere, it’s bit of an arms race here at times. Maybe not as much as N London though

Many parents in the UK are invested in education, the problem is that schools do not impose the discipline that schools in many overseas countries do, so it is easy for the less motivated to “cruise”. In addition schools do not prepare children for a work environment, where if you turn up late or follow instructions you are sacked.

Schools meet the needs of perhaps the top 25% of pupils that are keen to learn and have parents that care, the rest “cruise”.

I think it's that they value family unlike us. They are not detached parents, nor children. They assume older family member will live with them, contribute to child rearing, and be cared for and loved.

Same with children, they are involved and invested.

I think it all stems from detached parenting. I've had this baby, now it must become independent immediately. It must sleep alone, learn no one is coming when they cry, get onto solid foods, and go with other people.

In other cultures they just have a different attitude and being very involved with our children stems from that.

Agree with you 100%.
Same with work ethic. Maybe that feeds in to it. I am British but having lived abroad and come back it’s obvious how generally in Britain a lot of time is wasted by generally fannying around, having a chat, just moving incredibly slowly/ procrastinating/ leaving things to the last minute instead of simply getting things done. Where I lived abroad you were expected to give work your full focus but on the flip side free time is sacred. Except for entertainment venues, restaurants and emergency services everything on a Sunday is shut. Yet the economy is better than here. Go figure.

What monstera wrote.

Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable

Keep in mind that the E'Europeans etc that you meet are the ones with the get up and go, who got up and went. The sort of people who will uproot their lives to improve things for themselves and their families are by definition going to be hard working and aspirational.

I'm an immigrant, married to an immigrant, living in London. I see these behaviours in myself - I push my kids to do well and see it as my job to supplement and support what the school does. I was talking to DH about it the other day - their school has a fair soon and will have a "soak the teacher" stall. To me teachers are figures of authority who we respect and support and have a relationship of trust with. I could not believe that the school was doing this. I'd no sooner leave a used nappy on the teacher's car.

More complex-ly - I worked like a dog when I came here and I don't want my child to have to do the same - the great irony being that my daughter can work as hard as she likes in school, but success in British society has nearly nothing to do with that. But, you know, perhaps she'll get good A-levels and a secure job.

I think it's because we have a relatively good welfare system that there isn't the drive to do well. I lived in the ME (a relatively poor part, not a rich expat part) and EVERY child aspired to go to university because it would propel not only them, but their extended family out of poverty. Education was the key. Every parent wants their child to have a good education as #1 parenting goals, whereas in UK parents will more likely say they want their dc to be happy.
In saying that though, I much prefer the schooling in the UK, where not so academic dc also get a chance to shine through art or sport.

I think it’s a bit more nuanced. Any number of threads on here will show you show obsessed with education the British middle classes are. It has a different expression though, because British parents do also value play, socialising and outdoor activities for their children. My experience of Asian cultures is that these things are very much non-essentials.

Feel like it's an arms race in my area too & it's slowly dawning on me that my dc are very badly equipped!!!
It's telling as well that 3 out of the 6 candidate's in the prime minister race is from an immigrant background. Don't want to derail the thread onto politics though!

I'd add to this that those outstanding outer-london grammar schools, whose intake is predominantly second-gen immigrants, are almost entirely dependent on that work ethic, rather than on good teaching.

I've taught in several different European countries and from that perspective I disagree entirely. Parents seem more involved in the UK and I think the education is more rounded. Also, in the UK education and understanding of how children learn best has moved on which I feel has helped many children. Learning by rote for example can look good, but is not such an effective learning method for the longer term and often leads to an understanding that is difficult for children to apply in different contexts.

I think many parents do - but depending on social class and area it's not really the done thing to admit to doing extra.

Plus people can and do say horrible hyperbolic things like you're destroying their childhood - yep 20 minutes of maths they enjoy doing on-line means they never go outside . Even in some areas where many have tutors it can be denied - in others it's something to boast about.

there does not seem to be one system that works well, in China Singapore Korea loads of children get after school tutoring almost daily for hours and they get good results on the other hand they get really good results in Finland, where teachers all have Masters degrees but are called by their first name the atmosphere is relaxed, school is about 6 hours a day with no homework or no more than 30 minutes at top level, and no uniform, compulsory schoolis 9 years from 7-16 yet they outperform USA UK and most of the rest of EU

Years ago it was clearly regional - areas with lots of good well paid jobs that didn't need much education - no one cared because it didn't matter

Areas where people thought kids with education could do well cared a lot

And areas where the idea of a well paid job was a joke also didn't care

Yes, I agree, DP is from Eastern Europe she oft complains about the UK's penchant for soft learning. Despite growing up in utterly abject poverty she is extremely clever and understands ethics and complex concepts without studying as I did at uni. She's extremely pragmatic and stoical.
Education equals wealth, she believes in the much-maligned success sequence.