To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

Where do you live? Cos in London, there are very few grammars, so I think a lot of the immigrants would end up in state comprehensives. Which may be why the results for London schools are better. Even David Cameron's kid went to state primary in London (I assume she would go to a private secondary).

My Dh grew up in London and went to state comprehensive (jewish school). Most Jewish parents really want their kids to go to a Jewish school and most of them are state funded. Jewish parents really value education so my DH and most of his friends went to RG universities/Oxbridge. In fact, in his time, there was a perception that it was easier to get into oxbridge from a comprehensive, so there were kids who transferred from private school to his school for sixth form. He says it was crap though but I am not sure if there is any other better alternative other than private and grammar.

I'm a teacher. White British children are the lowest performing ethnic group in Britain especially working class white British boys

They really aren't. The kids in my home country get tutored more and spend way more time on homework. A lot of UK based parents from my home country say that one of the reasons they came to the UK was because they didn't want to subject their child to the stressful education system back home.

"Back home" - school programs are indeed tougher, more homework, HOWEVER... much longer holidays and shorter school days. As for stress... depends what you can compare.
Also UK is much more uptight about attendance.

Yes all the Chinese kids in our school had after school school. The French kids were on top of what their kids got, what the next exams were, it was the first question out of their family's mouths.
Not saying that's good or anything. I'm more concerned about the exam based system here and the self limiting at 15 down to three/four subjects.

@IVFPrayingForBioChild

I’m mixed raced/first generation Brit. My DH is a white immigrant. I come from a very humble background and my parents were keen for me to have a better life than they’ve had. They felt education was my golden ticket.

They even encouraged me to sit separately from ‘friends’ in class who mocked me for being a ‘boffin’ when they saw signs I was giving in to peer pressure. I’d also seen how hard my parents struggled and I wanted to avoid this.

You can get caned on the buttocks in Singapore if you are a boy and miss school (truancy). In public. In front of all your friends. I have witnessed only one public caning though; a classmate of mine stole a phone so he got a public caning.

We all have to participate in extra curricular activies so often we stayed in school until 5 pm.

They don't need to be as uptight about attendance because if you fail the exam you are repeating the year so it pretty much governs itself, and when kids do miss a day, they catch up the work. And yes school finishes earlier, but you are going home to do several hours of homework. And in the UK homework seems to be time limited e.g. they might study for an assessment for an hour and still not really get it, but the parents just shrug it off and say at least they tried. Back home, if you didn't get something you would be studying until you did get it, roping in older siblings, parents, siblings of friends etc.

I’m a child of immigrants who “got up and went” 3 decades ago and there is no way I would let my child squander the opportunity given to him by the risks my parents took.

My 6-year old goes to a private school in London, has extracurricular math on the weekend (completely differently than the U.K. style of teaching math) and we do a lot with them at home. We don’t make a big deal out of it, but we do a bit of math/reading/writing every day (not all of them!). We also do a lot of sports and outdoor activities. I don’t talk about any of this with friends, we just do what’s best for us and what works for our family.

We make it fun for him, but it helps that I have the immigrant work ethic/mentality and DP is English and entirely self made. We both highly value education, curiosity, and openness.

The lack of aspiration in this country in insane. Even worse is tall poppy syndrome, but being an immigrant, I don’t care about any of it. I raise my child to hold himself to high expectations, then with his three passports, the world is his oyster.

All parents want their kids to be happy in the end, but it’s a lot easier to be happy when you have career options and eventually some degree of control over the direction of your life, career, etc..

They don't need to be as uptight about attendance because if you fail the exam you are repeating the year

Repeating a year would be very rare, one would have to miss like months of school and fail every subject. But if parents decide to take a long weekend off for whatever reason - it is of no relevance. And you don't need to ask permission or lie about an illness.
As for school/homework time its seems to kinda balance out. When school is done by 1 p.m. - yes, kids can do a couple of hours of homework. But if they only get home by 5... then there isn't much time left.

I totally agree- education is not taken seriously enough at all by most U.K. parents.

DH is from South Korea and the culture there is night and day. All DC are expected to work as hard as possible and put in maximum effort in studying at all times.

All DC should be expected to try their hardest and get the best grades they’re capable of.

My DC already all set an age appropriate amount of study time that needs to be completed before they get free time and they are expected to get excellent grades.

You see, for us, if we failed one end of year exam in one of the core subjects (that included foreign languages) or 3 non-core subjects, it was an automatic repeat the year. We did mini tests and papers throughout the year which counted to our grade so it wasn't all down to that one exam, but it did mean we had to be on the ball the whole year too.
I agree with balancing itself out. I think it helped though that we didn't really have hobbies as subjects. Art, music, drama, dance, and DT were not subjects unless you went to like a trade college or did them as an after school club. So I guess it's easier to cut down the day and have that balance when you are studying fewer subjects.

Soak the teacher as in throw water balloons or something on them? Wow..why?? You are right..I could never do that and I wouldn't want my kids to do that either.

I grew up in an immigrant family. My parents weren't very pushy or strict (unlike many other parents from my country of ethnic origin: india) but it was always assumed that my siblings and me would go to university and get a professional, white collar kind of job. It was as if there was never a question about it. And so we did.

In India, yes, getting a good education affects not just your ability to earn a living but also your social standing including your marriage prospects....

Do you think its because native British people are able to scale back their expectations. You see it a lot on Mumsnet. Don't earn enough money? Its fine, move to where I live, you can buy a house for 140k. two people on minimum wage can easily afford that, so if I knew that was an option for me growing up, I would probably not stress. Its different for immigrants; most of us live in cities and would prefer to continue living in cities which tend to be more expensive.

My DH isn't an immigrant but he is Jewish and he doesn't even want to leave north london let alone move to a place with 140k houses. There isn't a place in the UK with a Jewish community and affordable housing unless you count Canvey Island (and that is for the ultra orthodox). There isn't even a place outside the UK for Jewish people to seek affordable housing/low cost of living as Israel isn't cheap and neither are the American states with large Jewish populations i.e. New York.

Be careful of what you wish for. My DIL is from Malaysia - she is a child psychiatrist who specialises in treating kids with major psychiatric problems stemming from the hot-housing of kids there. Those kids go to day school and then go off to evening school, their life is nothing but study and exams and parental expectations. Playing sport or having fun just don't exist for them .Give me a happy kid any day.

Just to add while I love India I wouldn't want my kids to get educated there or even work there. Too competitive and too cut throat. And way too much homework. I think childhood is for playing and learning how to learn.

I don't like the British education system either (and a lot of it has influenced obviously the Indian one). I think 4-5 is way too early to start school and I hate the long school days. I don't think kids necessarily have a more relaxed childhood here. It seems to be a constant struggle for resources and facilities.

I grew up in a different north European country and I'm not sure if it's still the same but our education in primary was extremely play based while still effective. School finished at 1pm (though most kids now would have to go to the after-school club even there I'm sure) and we had small class sizes. In state school. Private schools were almost unheard of. And you don't start school till you are 6-7.

I think my primary education was ideal and I feel sorry for my kids for having to put them through the grind at such a young age.

I agree that there is a general lack.of aspiration in the UK but I also think parents and schools are way too focused on traditional academic education and performance. From an early age in the UK there is a fixation with what reading level your child is on and very little emphasis on whether they actually enjoy reading and are reading books that they love, regardless of level.

My DS didn't enjoy learning to read. It was always a battle to get him to pick up a book. Until we moved to the US where he was introduced to such a wide range of books and where the focus was on pretty much reading whatever you want. It worked and he's read way more books than I ever thought possible.

While the US is definitely not known for its great schools, and standards vary widely in the public sector, there is a strong sense that àspiration is good and that, whatever your background, you can achieve a college education and get a job that pays well.

But, unlike the UK, schools offer a variety of subjects ar high school like philosophy, driver's Ed, all sorts of languages, and tons of sports which all count towards your final mark.

There is also a strong sense that just getting good grades is not enough , colleges want to know about leadership and community experience and sporting or other achievements outside of the classroom... it makes for a lot of variety of experiences and skills that are vital for the workplace. So while academics is important, I want my kids to learn so much more than that.. and most of all I want them to enjoy learning. I feel that many UK state schools focus on data, essentially, rather than on developing a love of learning and a curiosity about life, whether that's in traditional subjects or not.

@CrappyNHappy

Personally I see no issue with DC being expected to work hard. All DC should be expected to complete lots of homework and additional study and revision.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic but in case you aren't, when do the kids have time to play or to do things that haven't been prescribed? My kids come home around 4pm absolutely exhausted and it takes them ages to just kind of remove their shoes and wash their hands an loll about. and before we know it it's time for dinner (at 6pm) and then bed. If I fit in reading they won't get to play at all (they are 4 and 7 so fairly young in my eyes. Too young to be put through the grind). They are thankfully excelling academically but I dread when they go to higher classes where they actually will have to study at home to continue doing well academically. Where is the time?

@CrappyNHappy

It's about priorities for me. In my house education and academics are a top priority, so we ensure sufficient time is allocated to study.

Every DC in my house is set an age appropriate amount of study that has to be completed each evening/weekend. It is non negotiable and there is no screen time or free time until it is completed.

Second generation immigrant here. It was absolutely expected that we studied and worked as possible growing up. My parents come from a country where the entitlement to free education didn't exist. As they grew up poor, they left school at a very young age to work. One parent is still illiterate as a result and it massively held them back in life (things I take for granted such as reading the news, reading for joy or understanding instructions, my parent is unable to do). So it was always understood that education was a privilege (even though we went to a poor performing State school).

We also experienced a lot of racism growing up and also picked on for being poor. We were never on FSM or benefits as my parents worked super hard to just have enough (an issue of pride in their culture not to accept help). We saw how hard our parents worked and how little respect they got. So we studied hard to avoid this.

That said, my parents never pushed us to do extra work or to study. It was simply expected that we understood the sacrifices they had made and for us to do our best. As a child, I did understand and was very self motivated and disciplined as a result in my school work. I was also the child who had to translate and scribe for my parents from an early age - as they couldn't read or write - and knew how much my parents wished they could have gone to school. So I genuinely appreciated my education and never took it for granted.

I have my own kids now and they don't have the same drive. They know how hard their grandparents had it but they never lived through and they live comfortable lives.

I'm genuinely curious because this is something that has been worrying me a lot (ie the lack of playtime for the kids).

can I ask how much time your kids spend on school related work every day and how much time on playing? And how old are they?

I'm asking because I wonder if it's just my lack of time management that makes the days seem so impossibly short rather than the long school hours.

@CrappyNHappy

The time to be spent on studying is age dependent and increases with age.

DS1 (year 10) is expected to do 3 hours of work a night with 6 hours over the weekend- this will increase next year.

DD (year 8) is expected to do 2 hours a night and 3 hours over the weekend.

The expectation for DS2 (year 6) is 1 hour a night and 1 hour at the weekend.

I’m a teacher but I’m not remotely interested in pushing my children. I’ll support, but far more interested in them being decent people with the skills to find happiness. All this coaching and tutoring is just utterly bewildering to me.

Not read whole thread but agree with the OP.

There’s a thread going at the moment about the heat - one poster said she’d taken her kids out of school for the week to enjoy the weather because they’re not doing much at school this week anyway.
No way in the world would you get an immigrant family doing that. Those who have struggled to get to this country and benefit from free education, or those like my parents who worked hard to send us to private school - no way do those parents casually throw away a week’s schooling because it’s hot outside… that attitude is utterly alien to me.