To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

A lot of people are proud of not knowing anything other than what’s in TV. No respect for anything artistic or intellectual, no curiosity.

this may be true but it’s tough to break

It’s the opposite here tbh. I think you have to break it down as it varies so much.

In relation to the children I think the immigrant parents are absolutely more assertive... During lockdown all the children sent back work to this particular teacher but she wasn't responding... The parents on the WhatsApp group were up in arms & at least 7 or 8 emailed her to say "can you confirm you received my children's work & please respond with corrections /feedback"... No problem whatsoever being so blunt! This trend continued everytime a day slipped with no response until eventually the work was marked accordingly within a reasonable time frame...

I don't agree. My kids have gone though the NZ state system and in that time its revealed some real problems. Most maths at primary level is taught by people who have no liking for the subject and as a result the kids do poorly, comparatively speaking. Children don't get subject-specific teaching until they're 13 or 14, leaving little time to cover anything non-essential. The teachers seem to lack a lot of general knowledge. There is little provision for SEN. A teacher in Wellington was locking an ASD boy in a cupboard. On all measures, such as they are (PISA etc), NZ education has had a pronounced decline over the last 15 years. Everyone I've met who has experience of overseas education says there is less rigour and content in NZ. Hopefully decolonising the curriculum will lead to some improvement in curriculum and teaching methods, but it could easily be just a colossal distraction, e.g., if the science curriculum has to accommodate traditional indigenous beliefs.

Beware the Kiwi tendency to really big up things about NZ when the reality is mediocre.

Also the key thing really is parental involvement, rather than the specifics of what they actually do. Whether it’s taking kids to museums or being tiger mums.

DD2 twice did topic of Roman once in primary and once briefly in secondary.

We're in an area with many Roman sites - free ones you can easily walk to to expensive world heritage sites a small journey away. They asked in secondary how many had been to any nearby sites - only her .

School took them to nearby site - we couldn't get to as don't drive - but it's the kind of distance my parents would have driven us to with picnic as cheap and rare day out.

Same with Titanic - couldn't take her anywhere but there was coincidently quiet a few documentaries on it and we recorded and watched. Her friends all thought it very odd behaviour.

Even my MIL who's least bothered about education of their GP took DH to library to pick up books on topics or if there were nearby locations did visits.

We thought this was standard parenting - my single parent DSis also does it - it's apparently not.

@Commentqueen assertive or rude ??

Absolutely assertive 100%... The group was in agreement that the teacher in question was being paid to teach for a full day, we had no zooms whatsoever only set work which was being sent back & not acknowledged let alone corrected which is the bare minimum one would expect!

I can’t imagine my immigrant parents ever being rude to a teacher! If education is valued, it follows that those who provide it are respected. But they are very results driven and if their child wasn’t getting feedback, they definitely wouldn’t be shy in asking for it.

@karmakameleon exactly. They absolutely value the teachers expertise & 100 % not rude but assertive & confident enough to enquire if the work had been recieved & if the teacher could send feedback & corrections back to the children. It was her job that she was paid to do, they should not have had to do this & most wouldn't have (myself included as I'm not assertive & hate confrontation 🙈)

I do think the stereotype here is that if you are white/middle class and you care about your kids education you are 'pushy'.

I view it much the same as when I grew up in 80s Greater London and the 'cool' kids all said they didn't study/do school work - I remember kids literally bragging about how quickly they left an exam because they'd done so little of the questions. I liked reading/learning, and passing exams (my ticket away from those kids!) so was bullied as a 'swot', so have learned to have a thick skin and not give a fuck. I value education and don't care if that makes me 'pushy'. I play games with my kids that teach number skills/reading etc.

I got my reception aged child's first ever school report last week, and while I am all for education at this age to be 'through play' I was expecting to learn from it something about her current school strengths/weaknesses. So must admit I was taken aback to realize that it was just a bland 'we won't say if your kid is good or bad at anything we only say anything if there's a real problem'.

The parents on the WhatsApp group were up in arms & at least 7 or 8 emailed her to say "can you confirm you received my children's work & please respond with corrections /feedback"... No problem whatsoever being so blunt! This trend continued everytime a day slipped with no response until eventually the work was marked accordingly within a reasonable time frame...

Oh dear. ‘Every time a day slipped…’, ‘up in arms…’ Yeah, this is just quite inappropriate and cringeworthy and has nothing to with parents valuing education.
FYI I was rushed to hospital with an ectopic pregnancy during lockdown, so my home learning feedback took a set back before I could notify anyone - I’m glad that after that traumatic experience I didn’t have 7 or 8 emails from people who are not my employers trying to hold me accountable for a missed day of marking.

Obviously everyone is different and we shouldn’t generalise. Some cultures are much more relaxed about achievement! However, certain cultures definitely take it very seriously and see it in a much more competitive way. So they would have extra lessons, sports, music and expect all homework done and good results as standard. However, the ones who come here are the brightest and best very often. In their own countries I am sure there are many unmotivated students as well.

So must admit I was taken aback to realize that it was just a bland 'we won't say if your kid is good or bad at anything we only say anything if there's a real problem'.

There's very little feedback from some schools - and IME it's not uncommon when you do raise concerns to be told it's all fine - then next meeting exact opposite and when you ask what can you do at home to support - there's frequently no suggestions.

DC secondary reports we get are two numbers and two words towards learning - that's it - luckily our children do talk to us - but actual feedback from schools or opportunities to see their books can be sparse.

I know my parents used to see more of my work as even in primary we did lots of essays - and they'd check through on occasions as my spelling wasn't great. Our children don't nor do they have text books in secondary and even their work books are frequently kept in school - as so many students apparently lose them - though school has form for doing so as well.

Exactly. What those parents did wasn't 'assertive' it way overstepped a mark.

abit like this thread and the ridiculous assumptions and sweeping statements and stereotyping

If a teacher was on sick leave, of course I wouldn’t expect them to be marking work. But I would also expect the school to communicate with parents and explain the situation, and with longer term sickness ensure alternative arrangements were made. There is nothing rude or overstepping about expecting your children to get feedback on the work they produce.

Tbh if that's one of your example of why these foreign parents are so superior to the disengaged and disinterested British parents raising thick kids, I'm ok being the latter. That's incredibly rude at a time when lots of people were ill, suffering loss etc.

I think the fact that someone has migrated to another country shows that they are more likely to have high aspirations, so it is no surprise that this ethic is passed onto their children. There are plenty of aspirational UK parents. Otherwise there would not be such high competition for entry to private/high performing state schools.

To me successful parenting combines elements of 'tiger parenting' with 'child centric' parenting. Push too hard and children end up resenting learning. Not pushing hard enough and your child may not reach their full potential. Giving your child a love of learning will take them far.

State school funding has reduced and the extras have been steadily cut. Depending on the school your child attends It maybe necessary to supplement their education e.g. additional music, sport, drama, art, language lessons.

And the biggest one career advice. Your children do not necessarily need to know exactly what job they want but letting them know what is out there, matched with their interests and what qualifications/skills they need to achieve helps children to remain invested in education.

Absolutely agree. When you come from a much poorer background you will install education into your kids from a very young age as it could be a way out.

UK... the kids are much more privileged so perhaps take it for granted!

Tbh if that's one of your example of why these foreign parents are so superior to the disengaged and disinterested British parents raising thick kids, I'm ok being the latter. That's incredibly rude at a time when lots of people were ill, suffering loss etc.

Well said

The UK parents in the class are a lot more relaxed when it comes to education..... hooray say I!

For goodness' sake let children be children. It is a precious time that they only have once. People live longer now - there is lots of time for learning. Give them the basics and they can move on in their own way at their own pace. I completely changed careers at the age of 50 - lots of lovely learning that I really enjoyed as my heart was in it.

As a primary school governor I know the demands on children in terms of curriculum and SATs, Quite enough in my opinion.

There is a Steiner school round here where academic learning does not start till much later - I know lots of former pupils, and yes there is a brain surgeon amongst them, along with lots of other professionals, artisans. They have not been held back by their childhoods having been respected.

I know so manty people who are obsessed with their children "getting on", without defining what success looks like. There are so many adults whose lives are all about climbing a career ladder that they never stop to ask themselves what they are doing and why. They live under massive stress - is this what we wanted for them when we were encouraging them to pass exams?

We need to stop and define success, happiness and the meaning of education, before we rip the childhoods away from our children.

The spate of suicides amongst students is the reward for all that hard work.

For goodness' sake let children be children. It is a precious time that they only have once. People live longer now - there is lots of time for learning. Give them the basics and they can move on in their own way at their own pace.

This doesn't work when you are expected to start earning at 18 or in your early 20s and you don't have good enough qualifications or skills to be financially independent. So many people today complain they can't afford to buy a home, or have (more) kids because they don't earn enough. Academic qualifications are not a magic wand but they certainly help you land better-paid jobs. So while money itself may not make you happy, it allows you to do other things that do e.g. buy a home, have a family, etc.

Well yes, the teachers job is to teach & I'm sure had their been an emergency the school would have contacted us or she would have stopped sending the children out work (which she wasn't correcting!!).
So sorry to hear about your epoctic pregnancy.. Our teacher was just fine, no emergencies except her own dc's homeschooling apparently...

For goodness' sake let children be children. It is a precious time that they only have once. People live longer now - there is lots of time for learning. Give them the basics and they can move on in their own way at their own pace.

You can get qualifications later in life but cost can be a real barrier.

I knew fair few people last place we lived studying with OU as their workplaces demanded degrees to progress - it was harder round kids and partners with bills to pay.

That's not to say there isn't a balance to be sought between academic achievements and other interests and skills and just plain fun.

A certain class of people want their kids to be the 'best'. Meaning Oxbridge/Ivy League, specific professions.
I agree that it's unnecessary.
There's no need for all of that in the UK.
You only need grades good enough for what you want to do. Passing exams mean nothing, it's all about choosing the right educational path.
If your child isn't naturally academic then pushing them to get A*'s isn't going to work. And exams aren't an indicator of intelligence.
Autistic DP is excellent at his profession, acknowledged by all his workmates, but never got anything higher than a C at A-levels. Scraped into a v.low ranked uni by the skin of teeth, now earning £££. A tiger parent would have considered him a failure!

At the same time teenagers/young adults need to know the value of money. And how their chosen path fits their personality.

There are a lot of career changers in my line of work, so I have a unique perspective. Many of them got a shock going into the working world. They got a degree in 'what they loved', had a great youth, blah2 but never realized just how much money mattered. Trying to get their first house in their 30's, saddled with children, and trying to change careers is hard work.

www.fool.co.uk/2022/01/13/the-incredible-number-of-first-time-buyers-relying-on-the-bank-of-mum-and-dad/

Also a lot of complaints that the degree apprentice wage isn't enough to support a family, which I found ??? Apprentices cost us in terms of training time, not to mention the degree we pay for. It's not our fault that they chose to do this alongside having other responsibilities, but there's a lot of entitlement.

The majority of people don't have a 'great passion'. Even if they have a degree they chose something they're vaguely interested in. They come out not knowing what they want to do, eventually fall into a job. And then just go from there.

You don't have to do a job you hate, for money. But equally, you don't HAVE to do something you're wildly passionate about. It just needs to fit what you want. As lifelong learning, you can always change careers, but it's a lot easier having £££ behind you.