To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

Many people who actively choose to leave their country of origin are atypical in terms of education, attitudes, wealth in comparison to those who remain in their home country. If you looked at the children of our ex-pats abroad, you may say their parents exhibit different attitudes from those that remain here in the UK, e.g. use of fee-paying international schools, international outlook, language skills, adaptability etc.

There are down sides to the "pushy" immigrant parent attitude to education. I know more than one adult from that background who was forced to choose exam subjects and uni courses that they had no real interest in and put aside other subjects they loved in favour of prestige subjects. Im very glad my parents didn't do that. For balance i also know some non immigrant middle class people who had the same experience.
For further balance I know loads of British people who are obsessed with school results!
Hothousing small children has been proved to have no long term benefit, it can boost sorry term results but doesn't affect end results later so let small children learn through play!

I disagree @HappyHappyHermit .
Only in the British Isles did I hear about the practice of learning off essays (by heart) - including for the foreign language oral exams, which shocked me.
I think it's both the focus on academic subject (rather than the whole 'rounded individual' child thing, which children do achieve in E Europe for ex, w/o sacrificing the academic stuff), and the greater level of discipline imposed by parents in other countries.

Actually you are wrong. 4 out of the 6 are.

I don't think you're wrong and I agree with the reasons why those from an immigrant background might place such emphasis on education but I also don't agree it's necessarily a good thing. I remember a colleague who was similar to the parents you describe asking me who would teach my children in the summer holidays. Er, no-one, I very much believe in holidays and breaks! (Said children have now graduated from or are at top universities so I don't think I went too far wrong). Same lady also insisted all her children's toys were educational, never took them to parties and never took them to the park, beach, etc. Maybe that's the extreme but I don't agree that there is anything wrong with the balance of our educational system. Some children definitely don't have as much support from their parents as would be nice, but that isnt restricted to any particular social group.

Yes this too, the immigrant parents are extremely open about their views on education & what extra stuff they're doing.. Whereas the UK parents may be more secretive... I've done nothing extra to date except they did a few extra workbooks during lockdown & read loads... That's the extent of it...

I think there is a balance to be struck between educating children to reach their full potential BUT without overwhelming them and making them miserable.

My DD had a weekly tutor session (with homework) during the run up to the 11+ a couple of years ago and after 6 months of that I found her sobbing in her room and saying she didn't want to be alive any more because it was too much. I cancelled the rest of her tutor sessions within 5 minutes of that conversation. Prior to getting the tutor I would have been fretting that I had let her down by not helping her make the most of her potential, in hindsight it made her feel under pressure. So I would say that yes, potential should be encouraged, but there has to be a limit and children need to be children as well. There has to be balance.

You are right OP

@Bonheurdupasse That isn't something I've ever heard or come across in the UK, I agree that would definitely not be a good approach to learning.

I quite like that to be honest. Yes I want them to learn and achieve, but I also want them to be happy and enjoy their childhood. My eldest starts school in September. Reception at the school is completely play based, with free flow play to the garden, they do forest school throughout primary and lots of creative learning, gardening, building things and visits to the beach (which we’re right by). I walked past earlier and reception children were learning to ride bikes. I love it. I also read a lot to my children, they love books and we do maths at home which they enjoy.

DP is from Eastern Europe she oft complains about the UK's penchant for soft learning.

I have a work colleague who has complained of something similar. She was a bit shocked to find out her son’s grades weren’t good after being told how well he was doing at a parent’s evening. We have this polite and positive approach which actually isn’t very clear when it’s comes to how children are achieving. I think in other countries teachers are a lot more straight talking. Teachers here are scared of parents and how they will react, I don’t think it’s the same in other countries where education is valued more. So then sometimes parents here don’t maybe even realise when their children are in need of serious extra encouragement and support (or a figurative kick up their lazy arse).

YABU to include Ireland in your post. Children here learn a second language from the very beginning of school and our universities rank amongst the best in the world

I am relaxed about education and aspirational. My kids are all state school and all doing well.

The standard of UK education is extremely low. I’ve known this for years - both state and private schools have abysmally low standards. Almost nobody admits it so there is no prospect of rectifying it.

My dd recently received a school report stating that the teacher had never met such a hardworking, diligent student. My dd had done exactly what was asked of her - homework on time, learning completed for tests. Nothing more. I wonder what the teacher expected if the fact that doing exactly as told translates being to the most hardworking student ever!

I grew up in the era of rote learning, so initially, when my children began schooling I was definitely raising eyebrows. However, I'm relaxed and reasonably happy with how information Is being presented. I also feel that children gravitate to certain subjects more than others.
Both mine like Science and English, however, one prefers drama and the other history. Neither like Math.😂

U.K. education has a good reputation though. Granted it includes private and public and top universities

But then I grew up in a country using the same, all the extras and systems very similar. We had good universities but Oxbridge is well regarded still

Ivy League too but our system was from U.K.

Also I agree with pp that people who leave to get here are motivated and often want to use the U.K. system to its full advantage

I said nothing about the Irish systems language abilities.. I said Ukranian children arriving into the the UK & Ireland were away ahead in maths, Google it...

I disagree with op. I think the uk focuses a lot more on the whole child. Doesn't japan have really high sucide rates that is largely contributed to stress. And I'm sure I read that china doesn't allow special needs into mainstream schools. And a lot of polish parents I know are shocked at how much we help children with special needs in school and have clubs as they wouldn't get that in Poland. Some countries you basically have to pay for schools so that already cuts out the parents that don't value education.

If you look into a classroom and children are reciting things by rote it looks impressive, however it's proven it's not very effective. When you look into a lot of British classrooms (and I'm sure a lot of other countries) it's a lot more interactive and child led. The model I feel you are idealising is very much a one size fits all. I think if you saw me (as a immigrant but white and from an English speaking country but outwardly looks British) you'd think I was very relaxed with education but my kids attend 4 clubs each, after homework my children are expected to do ten minutes of reading or an extra task like writing. We read everyday. Most days out out are educational. But my children also have fun and days to the park and play sports (sports is very frowned upon in some countries). I won't push them if the stress isn't worth the outcome. They're in top sets and achieving above national averages etc but that's only part of who they are not their whole identify

I’m sure that part of the issue is the welfare state is so all encompassing that children know the state will provide housing, welfare and benefits if they don’t work. In most other countries you only get very basic welfare, health and education free, extra care has to be paid for

@IrishMama2015 I disagree with you, see my post above re learning essays etc off by heart - that's based on my experience in Ireland (across a number of generations: from now 14 to now 45 year olds).

Yes op there is a strange apathy of "just good enough" going on.

Strange class strangle hold where we are supposed to be ok with just good enough and it was good enough for me etc.

I've also personally been through the mill on how we deal with Sen children,there is no training for it and this impacts other DC in the class,the teachers time, the parents and then society later on.

I wish it would be more transparent as a system and open. There is also a damaging culture in school where parents are treated with derision and kept at arms length!

I teach in East Asia and the culture here is very hard-working. Expectations are high for children and their education and they are worked hard. However cultures like this also have high suicide rates. In my city adolescents who do this tend to jump from high buildings. In all my teaching career, I have never heard of as many children killing themselves as there are here.

Behaviour in public is also extremely good in this city. I've lived here for several years and never seen any anti-social behaviour from teenagers, not once. It's perfectly safe to ride public transport alone, at any time of the day or night.

I'm on a tangent now, but wealth inequality is extremely high - you can't move for top-end expensive cars - I have never seen wealth like it. But the workers who clean, guard, build, garden and look after children are clearly on a pittance, yet there is very little crime. Even the poorest are focused on their children's education. At the Ritz Carlton Hotel a couple of years ago they had a Christmas tree, attached were baubles with details of local children and the presents they would most like to receive - they were requests for things like a school bag, or some notebooks.

it's a completely different culture.

Interesting post what!

The tutoring is more often for state school pupils round here. Especially when the local high school can’t provide teachers for all subjects.

Yanbu. I'm pretty invested in my kids education (relatively, for a white middle class person of british heritage) and as a result my children's teachers think I am "pushy" and a "hothouser". Schools where I live seem to only expect parents to hear kids read about twice a week, doing anything like encouraging games that use maths skills, reading a lot etc seems to be met with shock and distaste by teachers.