To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

I just mentioned that thw ukranian children arriving were away ahead of British & Irish children in maths...

DH and I getting to University was a big deal in our families - and lead to better paying jobs which helped us get on housing ladder eventually by saving bloody hard - there no inheritance coming our way - and more options than if we stayed where we grew up.

There was an obvious benefit to us - I wonder if with student debt house price rises and less opportunities post graduation if that advantage is less and less clear cut.

FIL, a builder who owned his own small company by end of working life, told DH if he could earn a living with his brain rather than his back he really should do so.

Hope lack of hope, in areas with high unemployment, people in and out of work, low wages they can't see education as a way out. And to be fair many would have other hurdles to jump, the kid with the scheme accent is going to struggle in an interview against the posh kid from across town.

A degree / good education is no guarantee of a good job or a decent standard of living. Trades people are out earning those with degrees. And degrees cost £££, even just looking at accommodation costs.

So many areas have 'working poor' and the working poor can be worse off than benefits people.

Yes, Shanghai.

IME almost every parent cares a great deal about their children. I worked for a decade in comprehensive-type schools in the UK that had catchments where very few parents had gone to university, so fairly working-class. Almost all parents I had contact with were interested to know how their children were doing and clearly wanted them to do well.

However, I think in general there is a culture in the uk of trying not to stress our children and prioritising their friendships, and giving children more freedom to decide what they want to do. Attending classes (or being made to study) for 2 hours each night and doing several on Saturday and Sunday will give your children higher grades, but at what expense? And if you did that in the UK where it's not a norm, you're likely to end up with a resentful child.

There probably is a happy medium there somewhere.

I am talking about my perception of general culture, not individuals, of course.

The catchment of my DCs’ school isn’t very affluent overall. The parents I know who are immigrants tend to have a higher level of education themselves than the other parents and that to me seems to be the difference - it’s mainly the immigrant parents who have that level of education whereas the “non-immigrant” parents who are educated to that higher level are less likely to have DCs at the school.

THIS

There's certainly a lot of that mentality which can be quite unhealthy.
However.. 'any job is a proper job and any degree is worthy and so are all careers'.
Just isn't true.

3rd+ generation immigrants with a safety net and a more liberal outlook are happier to let their kids be free. Myself included. In fact I would be thrilled if they went into an artistic profession! I'm very musical, loved literature, drama dance etc. Had I been born in the UK, and had opportunity that's where I would have ended up.

However I will (hopefully!) have a house for my children to come home to if things don't work out. Enough experience to guide them into getting a job unrelated to their degree (indeed, this is easier in the UK), and more importantly some £££ to get them started.

First generation parents however have the experience of hard living. They don't want their kids to struggle, and having worked so hard for their money they're not going to throw it away for kids to chase a dream.

There's also historically been a lot of racism in the arts. You can see it getting better with Asian artists like Simu Liu, Ritu Arya, Anya Chalotra and firms delibrately going for diversity but back then if you didn't fit a certain profile you were unlikely to make it big. Now even 'standard' BBC shows have a multi-ethnic cast.

I don't think parents should force their kids into one of 3 acceptable professions (doctor, lawyer, engineer) but equally they don't need to be 100% supportive of EVERYTHING. If a kid wants something so much they're willing to risk everything, so be it but they shouldn't expect parental funding.

We can get away with being lazier here - in China, an army applicant, for entry at the lowest rank, requires at least a bachelor's degree. A university degree is not even necessary to join the British Army as a commissioned officer in Britain. To join the infantry as a private soldier, you literally have to be able to only sign your name on the dotted line.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I am often amazed by other Europeans (and Brexit or not, we ARE still Europeans). My friend works for a Dutch company, and he often remarks how backward he feels compared to his colleagues. They are a mix of Dutch, Danes, Italians and Swedes, and all of them speak flawless English (better than he does!!), plus French and sometimes German. They also seem more knowledgeable about science and art and so on.

The standard of education is definitely higher in some countries. But it’s not just that. The cultural/intellectual bar seems to be higher as well. The French and Italians know their own literature and are proud of it. And they don’t think you are pretentious or weird for quoting a poem or talking about philosophy or painting or whatever. We seem such ignorant, beer-swilling oafs in comparison.

One of the saddest things about the British is how little pride we take in our own literature. We have one of the greatest literary traditions in the world, but people ignore it. This is the island that produced Chaucer, Shakespeare, Donne, Milton, Blake, Byron, Jane Austen, Keats, the Brontes, Dickens, Woolf, not to mention scientists like Newton and Darwin. We ought to bring our children up to be proud of that.

Generally speaking, the UK does not value education highly.
In some countries it is harder to become a teacher than a doctor. The pay is very good. Here we really don't care that the bar is so low, teaching is the backup for many. We don't find it unacceptable that teachers don't have to do grammar tests, they are teaching children to write, grammar and they themselves do not understand simple concepts like if they ought to use to or too. We don't demand better. I feel the whole education system needs a shake up. There are so many teachers here that wouldn't have the slightest hope in becoming a teacher in another country. I really feel this speaks volumes. Any questions or concerns are teacher bashing.
Personally I'd love to see the UK find value in education and demand better standards. However, most see it as childcare. As long as they are paid and don't have to watch the children, then that is good enough.
Other cultures certainly value education a lot more.

Yanbu- my child goes to a top ten school but it’s more to do with how the school filters out low attaining students at post15/16 exam time than parents supporting their kids education. Quite a few of the wealthier parents pay for tutors but we can’t afford that.

When I was growing up here there was such a low emphasis on educational attainment and it was considered snobbery to have gone to university 🤦‍♀️ . It has changed a little since then but there is still more emphasis on material wealth and sporting success than academic success.

Completely dependent on the area and the aspirations of the parents. If there is low deprivation & you have engaged parents, particularly at primary school, the academic achievements are usually higher.

OP are you in the UK or a different country? If so which country?

I agree with the points people are making but we also have a class divide with this here in the UK; some of the best fee-paying schools will foster that kind of academically challenging environment and really "push" the students. In that respect a strong emphasis on education not an alien idea to this country, it's just one that is provided to a minority.

*is not an alien idea

Glad to see I'm not imagining it! I thought I was going to be flamed! @Suetwo I see the same with DCs Eastern European friends parents... They said growing up in the Soviet Union the arts were to be accessible to all, Bolshoi ballet threatre shows , classical music etc & was affordable to all.. They can't believe the price of theatre tickets 100 quid per ticket to the Nutcracker etc... These families travel back to their home countries twice, three times a year & treat their kids to theatre there... And skiing! Apparently so much cheaper & absolutely not viewed a "posh pursuit" in Eastern Europe, accessible to all very cheaply if they have the means to get to a mountain if not cross country is extremely popular...

I think the comparison is not necessarily between British kids and 'foreign' kids in the UK. It's between British kids in UK schools and foreign kids in their own countries. I was schooled outside the UK and I entirely agree that in the UK parents are less 'pushy' when it comes to their kids education. It seems British kids here are only encouraged to do the bare minimum - in other countries they are pushed to do their best and work much harder. At least IME of course.

Your bit about the year 1 Polish mother is interesting. Also, your unfounded assertion about Ukraine's maths standards . Look up the PISA tests and see what you find about those countries. Is playing in year 1 a bad thing?

The countries with the best educational outcomes, Europe wise are Scandinavian. They may not have the 'culture' you seem to hanker after (hothousing?). Formal education starts at 7 or 8 , total mixed ability settings, highly qualified , high paid and respected workforces.

It's not unfounded, google it! The French newspapers reported the same Ukranian kids that joined were a year ahead of peers!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukrainian-children-dazzle-french-and-italian-teachers-with-their-maths-abilities-0595c9zbr

There you go @Piggywaspushed

That's not robust international evidence from PISA tests.

Also, we are not French and Italian.

@TheWayTheLightFalls , my Gdcs* recent school fair had - among many others - a stall where the children could throw wet sponges at teachers, 2 at a time. It was purely a fun thing, and must have raised a fair bit of cash for the school, which was the whole point of the fair.

it certainly didn’t mean a lack of respect for the teachers - if anything they were more respected for being game enough!

It’s a lovely school, an invariably over-subscribed C of E primary.

YANBU - my DS goes to a grammar school which he worked his socks off to get into.

In a VERY white British area, his school is probably about 70% Asian. The parents of the kids in his class have pushed, encouraged and prepared their sons for academic success in a way that his primary school friends parents never did. Academics are definitely a cultural failing in this country.

Since we are engaging in anecdotes, I do know Primary teachers who have found Ukraininian children's maths skills poor. Obviously, a paper won't run with that story.

I've not met many British people I can have a thoroughly in-depth conversation about complex issues, DP oft uses logical allegories to explain her opinions and thoughts. I'm sure that is directly related to her education back home (Former Soviet country).