To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

I've always taken a relaxed approach - I work in an education field, I've always felt kids need encouragement and support at home but not added stress - I never explored tuition or extra education - never considered private education etc. All 3 went to an RI school - all did or are doing well and 2 are off to Uni this year (3 is 13) - I feel a balance is needed - support their interests (football mainly and horse riding) - buy books and encourage doing home work, work with the school but I never pushed or interfered much - seems to have worked well for us.

I agree with this. I am a second generation immigrant, brown skin colour and my immigrant parent really pushed to make sure I got a good education.

I had to do three hours homework every evening including weekends. An hour before tea and two hours afterwards. If I'd finished the set work I had to spend the rest of the time revising.

If I got a poor mark (which I regularly did in maths and sciences), I had to spend an extra hour revising and dad tested me on it afterwards to make sure I had understood everything.

I resented it at the time but I can see why he did it. In his country there was no welfare state and education was the only real route out of poverty.

I'm not particularly clever but I did finish up as a teacher, which made him proud.

@Shanghai1
That's really moving in so many ways! Is that actually Shanghai?

It's so interesting how people there really see education as a route out of poverty. Why don't we see it like that here?

I'm going to be you come September! I've been coasting along with my kids, happy to do the homework & read but nothing extra... I realise now I'm disadvantaging them in comparison to their particular peers, if we were in another area I prop ably wouldn't notice. Also to reiterate the kids in their class are extremely sociable, mannerly, polite kids.. The extracurriculars & parents additional school work is absolutely not affecting their social development!

@ghostyslovesheets

That's very lucky for you.

Remember some parents have to tutor because their DC have Sen like mine ( mild)and the school isn't flexible enough or has the skill's to teach.

I dread to think where DC would be without brilliant tutor!

I should not be having to spend ££ on this. My DC has mild Sen that has needed only small tweaks, nothing major!

The language thing is very common with countries that are islands eg Japan is also poor with foreign languages. If there was proper investment in foreign language teachers and a more appropriate curriculum then the Uk would have a chance to be great at languages but as a country we can afford to be lazy because of English being the language that allows work in a lot of places and industries. The foreign language in primary schools is a laughable tick box that makes politicians look good.

People who move overseas are naturally going to be more ambitious than normal. Ex and I lived abroad and it was fantastic for his career plus we had the adventure angle that we both enjoyed. Why not enrol your child in a local school in the hope that their English is better than their counterparts at home?

I'm assuming that you don't live in the areas of the country where competition for school places at 11+/13+ is brutal. Eg SW London Those parents are comparable to the ambition shown by immigrants imo and while not typical of UK parents, they will be elbowing the way forward for their kids in the hope that their futures are easier.

I think you are completely correct OP. I wonder though of this feeling of 'apathy's learning that some UK parents have come from the fact that education is free in this country and paid for by taxation, therefore they have 'already paid' for schooling and unwilling to do more.
I see it in healthcare too - a completely unrealistic idea of the actual cost of procedures and treatments.

You may be right
The proportion of Dc from the Indian sub continent at my Dcs Private school is higher than you might expect from the general demographic here. There are not many Black Dc though
Some of the DC from that background also used to make jokes like "oh dear, got a B, not sure I can go home tonight" or "80%, better hide my Mums shoes"
I suppose if you believe education has been the key to success for you then you will want the same for your child. I dont think its being invested though, its priorities.
I know of several wealthy white families who chose to send their DC to the OK Comprehensive school because they would be "fine" whereas for some cultures maybe "fine" is not enough?

I am from one of those European countries, and I have to say, Mathematics, world History and Geography are on much higher level. We also had Biology, Chemistry and Physics as separate subjects from primary school.

Not really lucky - eldest - who has 2 A's at a level and is predicted 2 more this year had exclusions, school refusals, threatened managed moves - refused to attend 6th form and for the past year has done all her study in the library - probably ASD but refused point blank to work with CAMHS - it has not been easy - and I understand completely the value of tutor support for children who need it - I thought this thread was more about parents in general and how UK parents don't push their kids - SEN is obviously different as it's about a need for support not pushing extra work

True Aus is the same re languages

Also agree re competitive pockets, I don’t think you can make blanket statements re apathy because many U.K. parents are absolutely going for it too

I grew up in Europe, taught in secondary schools in the UK, Switzerland and America; and taught in Higher Education in Ireland and the UK so I feel like I have seen it from different angles. I find that in the UK the focus is more on problem-solving, team working and creativity than on knowing facts and figures and learning by rote so to speak. I personally prefer the British approach but fair enough if others disagree.

It is about ambition and class attitudes in part. For people of my generation there was a feeling private schools were "not for the likes of us". This is a tough barrier to get through (apart from and possibly even greater than the fact of finding money for fees). Perhaps (I'm theorising) it is a barrier that does not always apply for people coming from other cultures, where private education is seen as what was once described to me as a "purchase" as there is a clear differential (ie educational provision not as good in the context from which they are coming).

Even if a school is clearly failing I have seen (white English) friends not interested in moving their children despite having funds to go private. It may be a generalisation, but IME other cultures are far more ambitious about education in the UK and getting their children into the "right" channels, such that prep schools in our region have more Chinese children than and as many Nigerian and Russian children as English.

Very true, we are were working class, my DD has 47k of debt, working her arse off in the NHS for very little reward, its pathetic.

So she is off soon, Australia, their gain, our loss.

People have no idea of the numbers who have left or are leaving the NHS but you will when you need care and it'll be too late

Well according to this thread, because the WC parents just use school for childcare and are happy knowing their kids can just live off benefits like they do, happy in the knowledge that they don't have to interact with their kids more than the bare minimum.

I'm curious whether all those posters agreeing British parents are ambivalent and not invested in their kids etc are conceding They are like that, or whether they y of course are the exception to the rule because THEY are so much better than their contemporaries

I agree OP. You only have to look at the threads about what people wish they learnt at school and it’s obvious few people value an academic education.

I’m a second generation immigrant and my husband is white British and it’s one of the things we argue about. I think DS should work hard and do some school work over the holidays (11 plus coming up) and DH is of the “what does it matter, I did alright without getting top grades at school” mentality. It drives me nuts.

I agree. We are from a country in Europe that has a stereotype of being lazy, yet children here finish school around lunchtime when it gets too hot, will go home, eat and have a nap, do homework and then go to tuition from 5 till 9, when it's cooled down a lot. Tuition is in all subjects, not just ones you're bad at because there is a strong growth mentality. I definitely see in the UK a lack of growth mentality instilled in youth and just the acceptance that if they turn up and behave, it's good enough and if it's hard, they can just give up if it's not a core subject, because it's not important.

I don't know if I agree that UK parents care less than other parents (other than the obvious "Tiger Mums" in places like Singapore or South Korea.

In other countries teachers are better respected and trusted to get on with teaching (eg Finland); and parents do not take credit for their kids in the same way UK kids do - eg Dutch parents accept their kids are their own people and don't boast about them (and on the other side of the coin, presumably don't blame the parents for every sin of the child either).

I think it's different, not better or worse.

In England though people feel they don’t need another language

As an ‘expat’ living abroad, I know lots of other ‘English foreigners’ also. All of them have to speak the local language to get by, and all their children go to local, not international schools. Many are also married to someone from a different European country, so speak English and say Hungarian at home, and then local language for work and school.

Ds will start local kindergarten soon. That and all schooling will be local, so not in English.

they can just give up if it's not a core subject, because it's not important

this certainly applies to MFL. Only in the UK are languages too hard to learn (complete nonsense - our kids aren't any less intelligent than kids in eg Norway or the Netherlands).

I completely agree with you. I am an immigrant myself. It's a shame to see all that this country has to offer go to waste because people who have been living here for generations don't have aspirations. My child used to go to public school. Teachers work hard but there is very little parental involvement. Some parents even openly admit quite proudly that they don't know what their children are doing at school. Our child was getting bored because she wasn't challenged enough so we have to now send her to private school. I also feel like people don't have any aspirations. Like why work hard when you can get a job as a shelf stacker. Not that any thing wrong with it as we do need people to stack shelves but these jobs will most likely be replaced by robots at some point. What will they do then?

I think DS should work hard and do some school work over the holidays (11 plus coming up) and DH is of the “what does it matter, I did alright without getting top grades at school” mentality. It drives me nuts

again, I don't think that is to do with which country you came from but simply reflects how you learn yourself. I was having a discussion with an acquaintance the other week whose daughter is in Y10. She was worrying over her dd's lack of revision for year 10 exams; her husband was laid back about it. And before you think it's a male/female thing, it isn't. My son is a lazy so and so and does the minimum to get by. DH was tearing his hair out because he is a grafter. I wasn't, because my son takes after me!

There was a Chinese doctor on on of those Emergency hospital programmes on tv today other day. He was talking about his education in China. He said if you got 98% in a test you were asked by your parents what happened to the other 2%. In this country a parent would probably buy a treat! I think there's a happy medium!
But I do wonder about how other countries teach English compared to how we teach MFL.
Our Scandinavian friends and their teenage children speak excellent English. My DS who has a natural aptitude for languages, studied French for GCSE and got an A is actually less fluent than I am - and I got a B in O level French in 1980.