To think other cultures are far more invested in their DCs education than UK parents?

[Commentqueen]

Just an observation from our area... We live in a really diverse area & it's amazing. My dc go to state school with children with Eastern European, Chinese, German, Scandinavian, Bangladeshi, Nigerian & Japanese parents... The work ethic is unbelievable & the parents don't seem to trust the school to educate their kids, they do alot themselves outside school with the dc.. The UK parents in the class are alot more relaxed when it comes to education...
Aibu to think the UK just isn't as invested in education as other cultures?
The Ukranian refugee crisis also highlighted that the ukranian children joining British & Irish schools were away ahead in maths in comparison to their new counterparts & many also had excellent English... The UK really lag behind in foreign languages.. In years to come my dc who only speak English so far will be competing for jobs with dc who speak 4 or 5 languages fluently... I know come September I'll be doing my best to prepare my dc better!

I'm a state school primary teacher, so I'm not here to slate the UK system at all.

But I also work as a private tutor, and have done for the past 4 years. I'm also not cheap. I'd say 90% of the families I work with are EITHER non-white, or the parents are first generation immigrants.
Of my current 6 families -
Family 1: Nigerian, first generation.
Family 2: Zimbabwean, first generation.
Family 3: Bangladeshi, first generation.
Family 4: Romanian, first generation.
Family 5: Albanian, first generation.
Family 6: White British.

For the white British communities... I think there's a lot of historical baggage of "I'm already a white Brit, so I'm already top of the pile, so why try any harder?"

Whereas for those NOT from that pile, there is perhaps a motivation that the white Brits don't have, to push their children harder and further.

@zingally this is exactly that I mean, my kids will be competing for hopefully we'll paying jobs (as we can't afford to give them house deposits!) these kids are already more employable as they have the language advantage of more than likely speaking their parents native tongue at home & the work ethic... I realise childhood is supposed to be enjoyable but adulthood isn't going to be much fun if you don't have the money to live well which is what everyone wants for their dc... Globalisation is making things so much harder for all nationalities & if I can help give my kids an edge I'll need to try...

I mean, if you think your child will benefit from a Tiger Mum situation where they are pushed and hothoused, then fine. Two of mine would crumble; one would probably be ok with that.

Yes I agree that there is a cultural thing going on; I don’t agree that it means British parents care less.

I'm not going Tiger mum just upping the ante with the schoolwork.. No I'm not saying British parents care less but seem to be more focused on kids playing out on the road, playdates, trips to the parks, sleepovers are now becoming a thing for my niece age 10. These were absolutely my priorities especially after covid... But I feel now I'm letting dc down & not balancing it enough.. They do extracurricular but it's swimming lessons, soccer & gymnastics... Not French, music & Spanish like the kids in her class who all do swimming lessons also..

You only need grades good enough for what you want to do

Right, but most kids don't know what they want to do, so the higher their grades the more doors stay open to them.

Have you considered emigrating yourself OP? The kids would pick up their second language through emersion which is more comprehensive than any classes you could pay for and they'd benefit from being at better schools surrounded by kids who's parents actually care about their future. There's always a risk something may change here and your kids will be exposed to those pesky White British kids with their gutter-level values like you used to be before you bettered yourself.

@Commentqueen relax. Your children will be fine.
Unlike in the US you absolutely don't need a million extracurricular activities. To get into university, or an apprenticeship
In fact you don't even need to get to a 'good' university.

Getting 'a' job is easy if you know the right technique. A 2:1 at least, and sufficient extracurriculars to answer competency questions are all you need. A good uni careeer service will drill you until you can answer the questions in your sleep but you can also pay for coaching if you want.

Accountancy is a very accessible route to a well-paid career and they even take school leavers.
There are also degree apprenticeships in all sorts of things like software engineering, compliance, operations management.

🍩 for you, happy Friday!

If they don't already have good grades/show an interest then they're highly unlikely to become doctors, physicists, mathematicians or anything else that requires being very academic.
Likewise people who want to do something very specific (like be a diplomat, archaeologist etc) usually know by the time they're teenagers.

BBC is enough to get into any other subject. Especially as so many 'lower-ranked/ex-poly/whatever universities now offer traditional academic subjects. Plenty of spaces in Clearing. Even if the start uni isn't 'prestigious' they can always do a Masters.

Yanbu. British attitudes to parenting are all about 'I want my kids to be happy'.. other cultures seem to focus on academics.

I wish British culture was more interested in high achievement academically, the bullshit about 'being happy' is such a waste, working hard and earning well are more important imo.

Also there are lots of ways to get a degree now. Foundation years, diplomas, etc.
Again not saying that parents shouldn't prioritize grades, or not guide.
but focus on the end goal, your family's needs, and the personality of the child.

There are plenty who do prioritise academics. I keep seeing these posts and I think they’re missing out on what’s happening in a fair few parts of the country. Dc are getting ahead

the bullshit about 'being happy' is such a waste, working hard and earning well are more important imo.

The issue is that if someone is happy as a kid (focussing on 'being a kid' rather than working hard at school) they may not be very happy as adults because they won't find many open doors. If, instead, they focus on achieving high grades, they can absolutely still have a happy childhood, AND they will have many more opportunities for a happy adulthood once they earn enough to afford what makes them happy e.g. a family, holidays, etc.

I don't agree with the "you only need grades good enough for what you want to do' attitude at all and it isn't accepted in my house.

DC should be expected to try their absolute hardest and get the best grades they personally are capable of.

My DC are all capable of getting A* grades with hard work so that is what is expected. They are expected to get excellent grades, and consequences are handed out if they don't put the effort in.

Yes myself included, the playground, playdates, cinema trips inflatable parks fill up our leisure time.. I was very conscious of my friends socialising & mixing... My British friends are the same with theirs... I have a few Eastern European friends & they rarely meet us as they're always busy. Last time we met them was at a park in the nearby city, they had gone to an exhibition in transport museum first though 😁

@IRememberXanadu this is what I am after realising! The cost of living crisis has been an eye opener for me & the way things are headed my dc will need to be high earners to enjoy a decent quality of life as we can't afford to support them beyond college ...

There's a hell of a lot of generalisation going on here and a lot of snobbery.
In my extended scottish family there are a mixture of trades and professions, some traditional others more creative.
Valuing someone's life based on their qualifications and career is not right, everyone makes a contribution to society. I also don't recognise the white parents unfussed about education, its not my experience, I think we accept a wider range of careers as acceptable but that is a good thing.

I had a very very pushy parent and I know it is because of her own experiences as a mixed race child in the 60s and the struggles she faced (I also have a very relaxed parent who is naturally extremely gifted/genuinely a genius but autistic and did not apply himself).
I was pushed and pushed and came out with amazing GCSE and A levels. Went to a RG university and got a very "well respected" job. Never travelled, studied for hours.
My sister resisted the pushing and coasted through school and higher education, had loads of fun in her teens and 20s.
I have become an anxious mess with massive imposter syndrome issues and I struggle to be motivated at work because I'm not really interested despite the 'prestige'.
My sister has found a job she genuinely adores, earns double what I do and is very happy.
I have 3 kids, one is autistic and one is dyslexic (the other is pre-school) and I am very supportive of their schooling but will not push them or make them think their value is in educational achievement. My autistic son is extremely gifted at maths and has chosen to take the 11+ so he has had some tutoring this year, my daughter will probably choose not to as she is not academic but she is extremely creative. That's fine by me.
I absolutely value their happiness over their academics.
I agree that financial stability plays into happiness but in this country that seems to be more and more out of the control of the individual and a much wider issue of politics and power than a child's exam results.

But what is ‘absolute hardest’?
Is it someone like me, who got A*s with no tutoring at all? I spent most of my time reading, playing music, daydreaming.
Or my best mate, who had lots of tutoring and spent every waking hour studying.

I used to have your attitude but after years of working with, hiring and training people from all walks of life my conclusion - doesn’t make much difference. A lot of academically excellent people aren’t very good in the workplace, and as discussed in the higher earning thread don’t have the emotional resilience, creativity or people skills to make it big.

In my first year at a prestigious university I focused solely on my studies and got a first. But nobody cares about that at interviews. They wanted to know what else I had done. Huh?

After observing other people I realised that nobody cares. It was the attitude. They wanted examples of stuff I had done, not my grades.
I partied more, did more extracurriculars, freed myself. I learnt to take risks, ask for what I wanted.

In my final year I got several job offers, and throughout my career it has been my personal skills that have gotten me jobs. Yes, I need certain technical skills for my profession but you don’t get promoted for just doing a great technical job. There are more important skills. The best people and bosses I have worked with didn’t go to prestigious unis. Look at the CIO’, CTO’s of many companies.

Again - if your child is perfect , has both the academic and others. Great. But if you have a choice of pushing, pushing, pushing to get A*’s. Or letting them develop other skills. Choose the other skills, and let them be with average grades.

Btw all of those hours I spent with reading and music. Didn’t really reflect on my grades. But I can see the beauty of patterns.

Many people like my DP never got good grades but their mind is top class. Equally so the excellent project managers etc I have worked with, got all C’s, but who saw through billion dollar projects with aplomb.

Grades are just a door. If you want to do academic stuff they’re more important. Top unis have some better opportunities.

but they’re not the be all and end all for a child who isn’t so inclined and has to be dragged, kicking and screaming to study.

@wejammin I’ve seen a lot of people like you.
Not just the interest but when you push for perfection something changes in your character. You become anxious, eager to please. Everything is formulaic. I was like that as a teen.

However the world isn’t like that. It takes a certain amount of accepting chaos, taking risks and basically getting stuck in to really succeed. And although it sounds shitty a lot of BS-ing

I was lucky to be ‘awakened’ at uni but many people only find out waaay later.

@OooErr

My DC do lots of extra curricular activities. What they don't have is constant 'screen time'.

The vast majority of DC in the UK could easily be doing the amount of study mine do while still having time for other things.

DS1 (year 10) will get up at 8 am tomorrow and have 4 of his study hours for the weekend done by 12.30pm. He plays football in the afternoon and will then go out with friends in the evening.

Sunday morning he will do 2 more hours of study before a family lunch and then a cycle ride. He'll do 2 more hours of revision in the evening.

There is a balance to be struck but let's not pretend that DC who work hard and put effort in have no lives- every year 10 could be following DS's study routine if they had the discipline and work ethic.

That’s very little compared to some of the DC I’ve seen.
Again - relative. Reasonably smart kid, reasonable effort, great grades.
Not so smart kid, reasonable effort, probs ok grades.
Maybe not so smart kid might just about get A’s, and possibly A*’s if they devoted all of their effort but is it worth it?

I think i need to make another observation here. Being Eastern European - we care about results much more than the process.
Back at home school was work, not playtime and not making friends. It was grades and a place at university.
For my kids here - are they making friends? who are they playing with?

1. i always hated school. i was on the top of the class, but so what? I went to university but dropped out very soon to have a family (finished a degree later).
2. my kids like school. the oldest chose army instead of university (seen as my failure in the eyes of the extended family - but so what? he can go to uni later if he wants to)

Again, from my school time i miss the 3 months of summer holidays. I do resent that my kids have to wear stupid uniforms.
On the other hand, i am grateful they don't see school as prison time.

Most Indian families don't want their kids to be like white Brits.
They are not considered the top.
Not the ones they have to first associate with when they get here.
It's only when you get to university you meet white British people that seem 'normal' as in they care about education and progress.
The white British families immigrants are first exposed to are their fear - their children will end up like that.

What a vile post. The reverse racism on this post is staggering.