She just needs a spanking !

[toddleedoo]

Does anyone here spank their kids ? I don't mean serious hitting, but a light clap on the bottom ?

I ask because I recently went on a shopping trip with my DS and my mother. My DS was an absolute nightmare. Having tantrums every time something didn't go his way and continuously throwing himself on the floor.

I don't shout at him in any way when he does this. I just try to distract him and if it doesn't work and he continues, I just kind of let him have his moment and do the whole, name his feelings ( you're so frustrated, mummy understands, it's not nice when we can't do what we want ) and then when he's ready I give him a cuddle. Or other times I just kind of stay near him and don't say much and just try to offer support by being near him. Recently it worked well when I said to him in a really call voice ' poor darling you're so sad and frustrated '. He seemed to calm down. Anyway, long story short, I try to be there, rather than tell him off.

My mum said I should just give him a little smack on his bottom and that would sort it out entirely. Some older people at the shopping centre got involved and were basically saying the same. I don't want to do that.

Am I being too soft though? At home, when he does something naughty like kick or jump around on the sofa, I put him on the step as a punishment. Only when he's actively defiant and hits or does something dangerous. I see him not listening / ignoring me / hitting and throwing stuff, as something that needs consequences, like going on the step.

Having melt downs because he can't get his way is a different thing to me and shouldn't be ' punished ' with a time out. Or should it ? How do you do it in public ?

Open to suggestions, I don't know what I'm doing ! I keep being told I'm too soft.

He is two and a half !

Hitting is shit parenting that doesn't calm children down or teach them how to manage their emotions. It's a sign that the adult themselves doesn't know how to manage their emotions and nor do they care.

Lazy and harmful.

I wouldn’t be talking while child is screaming. I would aim to remove them from the immediate environment / situation and wait.

When screaming has subsided, then I would talk…easy short sentences they understand and very calm, clear instructions about what is going to happen next.

I wouldn’t use terms of affection such as ‘darling’. It’s just extra words you don’t need when they are upset or angry and can’t necessarily process everything that is going on. Use their name instead to get their attention.

Slapping someone for being overwhelmed by their emotions ..... yeah I don't think anyone thinks that sounds like a good idea. People who slap children do it because THEY are not in control of their own feelings of rage, anger, embarrassment and want control. They're not parenting, they're abusive.

Not spanking, no.
But discipline, yes.
There is nothing wrong with picking up a tantrumming child and saying, "I know you're upset but this isn't what we do when we're upset" and then taking them outside. Tell them you'll be there while they calm down, but "we can't go back in while you're behaving like that," etc., etc.
You don't have to smack, but only validating feelings isn't telling them what they're doing is unacceptable.
We can also model behaviour; even a toddler can understand "When mummy is upset, she doesn't throw herself all over the floor shrieking" and so on.

Would your mum be ok with you spanking her on the bum if she got upset or angry about something?

It's nice for weak, dim-witted people to be able to tell themselves that they didn't just fail to control themselves in the presence of a small child and lashed out to make themselves feel better, they were just doing GOOD PARENTING.

But it's bullshit.

My mother is actually quite apologetic for it these days. She sees her grandchildren are happier and more well adjusted and well behaved than we were. When I say it's a no hitting house, I actually mean it. Not a "only I can hit" house.

Smacking is an absolute loss of control by the parent. Toddlers can be annoying but they are also small and vulnerable. Generally when mine have had mega tantrums at that age it has been because they were tired of hungry and I was pushing myself luck. I was always strict about nap time and chose to do activities in the morning as it worked much better for my children. Even with my 3yo now I know she is likely to be fractious after swimming because she gets tried and often falls asleep in the car on the way back. My eldest could go straight to the shops or something else but it would be too much for the younger one.

This exactly! And what sort of work do we live in when it is deemed ok?

🙄

And why will your dc be in therapy?

Honestly the current older generation me being in my 60’s, are the ones that explored different ways to raise our dc after being smacked ourselves, embraced the NCT, campaigned against pesticides in food, fought for better nursery provision, introduced car seats and put our babies on their backs not their tummies, it didn’t all magically happen in 2010.

I spanked my 3 year old daughter once, in absolute desperation. It was the most miserable thing I have ever done. To see the look on her face afterwards, and the way she instantly went very meek and submissive, was absolutely horrifying. I have never repeated it and it made me realise instantly how easy it would be to abuse that power I had over her - my physical size. I knew in that moment that the correct thing for me to have done, whilst feeling as desperate as I did (single parent going through hideous divorce, at end of my tether with young kids), was to just leave the room.

Just to say though, I absolutely cannot bear the 'naughty step' either and refused to treat my children in that way... it just felt patronising and treating them like animals being trained. My SIL would insist that her DC 'say sorry and give mummy a kiss' before being allowed to get down from the naughty step.... UGH The thing to realise I think is that small children cannot be forced to enjoy shopping trips and no amount of 'correct' handling will coerce them into good behaviour if they are tired/bored/hot etc. Best to accept that they are not animals that can be trained and minimise the length of time we expect them to be compliant in that situation.

I used to do exactly what you’re doing with public tantrums, it works and I ended up with well behaved children.
I did give one light smack for anything immediately dangerous to themselves or others (running in the road, repeated poking electrical sockets, that type of thing). It was rarely necessary and they understood that was the rule - just enough to bring them up short and stop it!

Why do you think that will happen?

OP, I agree with you and disagree with your mum.

I don’t know if it helps, but I did find with mine that keeping sugar low in their diets helped. The only time either of them had a lie-on-the-floor tantrum was after the oldest had had more sugar than usual one Sunday lunchtime. It might be worth looking to see if tantrums happen more often when he has had more than a certain amount of sugar.

it's no always a loss of control if that is the decided punishment they decide to use. I've seen friends parents smack when they are perfectly calm. I don't agree with it but the behaviour stops there and then usually !

My DH was smacked, I wasn't. I have found it easy to parent without smacking but he has struggled (tended to swing between too permissive and too controlling, although he's got much better over the years). It's so much easier to parent without smacking when you have positive experiences of being parented yourself to draw on!

My MIL used to say I'd change my mind on smacking. Lots of "no one likes doing it, but it's necessary to show them who's boss" kind of comments. Most of her parenting stories were cautionary tales about her power struggles with a young DH. A struggle she ultimately lost when at 14 he realised he was bigger than her and - after hitting him with her wooden spoon - he picked her up and told her that was the last time she would lay a hand on him. He then went slightly off the rails and she had no parenting tools left to use. Her take away from this used to be that she must have been too soft on him and she urged me to be harder on our children in case they were also 'wilful'.

Our children are teens now (and DSS a young adult). All kind, hard working and polite, excellent school reports etc. My MIL is not a monster, she just knew no better. All her friends and family were doing it; the only alternative she saw was overly permissive parents. She has said to me so many times that she can see now she made many mistakes with DH and wishes she knew then what she knows now.

My mum said I should just give him a little smack on his bottom and that would sort it out entirely. Some older people at the shopping centre got involved and were basically saying the same. I don't want to do that.

No because it is illegal (in Wales) and it is kind of mean too. Your approach is perfect. Ignore the penut gallery.

We found, with DS, that the naughty step only worked very occasionally, most of the time it led to a bigger tantrum as he tried to get off. Eventually we stopped it and settled on:

If he didn't do as he was told/asked he got a 'this is the consequence' warning. So 'if you don't stop throwing those toys I will take them away'. Then do it, with a sharp tone to the voice and a 'don't you dare' look on your face ...'That's enough! You've been warned, toys are going away until after lunch'. Stick to it - DS remembered consequences after the first few times, so the warning was often enough. When we'd calmed down I'd talk to him about why he shouldn't do something - no nagging just 'you shouldn't throw toys, they could break or you might hurt someone/something' Sometimes I'd make it into a bigger 'jokey' thing at that age 'imagine if you hit the TV and it smashed! No more Thomas the Tank Engine...argh!"
If he was tantruming he'd get the 'that's enough' - he'd learned that meant consequences unless he stopped. He knew we'd follow through. Often that was enough. Otherwise he'd be lifted up and taken away from the audience. No chat, no more warnings. Once is enough - he didn't need analysing, he needed parenting.
If we were somewhere 'boring' like a wedding or family meal out we'd take turns in walking him around until food arrived or the boring bit was over or we'd have quiet things with us like lego, books, crayons etc. Others don't need to be disturbed by children. Kids have to learn to be sociable and learn to manage boring things - again, a parent's job to teach it.

When DS was about 18 months old we went to Austria on holiday, one of those Kinder hotels. There was a little boy, about three, at the other table with German parents. He was ratty and playing up. Mum told him off - gently but firmly. No joy. She picked him straight up and took him outside. I watched her through the window, down at his level, looking him in the eye and speaking, not shouting, to him. Then she gave him a hug and kiss, held his hand and led him back in. They just got on with their meal - she'd had a word and that was enough - from then on they were all just normal laughing and joking about.

I learned a lot from that woman. Always got down to DS's level, always looked him in the eye, always followed a telling off with a hug, remove him if he's getting an audience - they don't help and then praise the good behaviour without going into reams of chat about the bad.

He's 15 years old now and I still only need to say 'That's enough...' with a stern voice and a 'don't you dare' look on my face to pull him up. Hope it works when he's 18 ha ha!

But smacking? Nope, I did give him a tap on the hand once when he reached for something hot but that was more of a batting his hand away from the heat than a slap.

My parents never hit me or my siblings - for 1960s parents they were in a minority. They never needed to. My mum could scare the do-dah out of you with one look if you were naughty. It's an art form!

@LondonJax your comment has reminded me of the time my dgc was playing up in a restaurant, he was about 7, being grumpy and refusing to engage and complaining a lot.
When we got home my ds told dgc to stay in the car with him.
After 5 minutes dgc came in and quietly sat down.
My dil asked has daddy told you off.
No, it's worse. He said he's disappointed with me.
My ds is very good at correcting dgc in a quiet and effective way.

The way parents choose to discipline their child is their decision. Those that choose not to parent their children create life-long problems for their children that often span over to the next generation.
Children without secure boundaries develop coping mechanisms that are often blamed for their parents fear of discipline.
Whether it's lawful, legal or just frowned upon, the paperwork that says what you can and cannot do with your children when it comes to regulating their behaviour will be readily available with parenting courses and teenage correction programmes for you to pay for with both your purse and your time if this is the way you choose to parent also.

I don't smack my children because assaulting anyone is wrong.

It also happens to be illegal where I live, caregivers or parents can be criminally prosecuted for assaulting a child.

Those that choose not to parent their children create life-long problems for their children that often span over to the next generation.

Yep, and hitting isn't parenting and is known to be harmful.

Some people may be unable to behave themselves for any reason than to avoid being assaulted but these days, most of us raise our kids to do better.

I think a lot of people, particularly those from older generations say this, because, if your aim is behaviour control, it works.
If you build up sufficient association with a behaviour and pain/humiliation, most children will learn not to repeat the behaviour. Corporal punishment can be an effective deterent, and I think when it was the norm, children's behaviour was more controlled, because they were frightened of their parent.
So, yes, I'm sure she's right in that a smack may prevent tantrums, but few would argue its an appropriate way to control children.

If there parents have bothered to teach them then yes they can.

Of course you tell a child how it’s appropriate to behave but mid tantrums that would be pointless and counterproductive.

It didn't work with me at all. My father used to tell me how often he had to smack me as a child, to which I responded that it clearly didn't work then, did it? All it did was make me hate him and not care about his approval. Then it escalated, since the stupid bastard never learned to control himself either, relying on hitting to do his parenting.

When corporal punishment was still in use in schools it was known that it was the same kids who kept getting the cane over and over.

It may work in the immediate short term, although personally I've never seen a screaming, crying kid who became calm after being slapped by an adult. But long term, it creates the kind of tension and anxiety that causes more problems with behaviour and relationships.

As a psychologist, I work with adults who struggle to recognise or label their emotions, and also aren't able to regulate them, because they were never shown this as children. For many, it's an absolute revelation to them when I say "it's absolutely OK and normal to feel this way", as many of them were never validated for their feelings as children.

Therefore, my professional opinion is that your approach is spot on. You are naming his emotions so he can recognise them later in life, you are normalising and validating his emotions (it's ok to feel x or y, etc), and you are showing care and empathy. This is how well rounded, emotionally healthy and emotionally literate adults are formed.