Are Tory voters that stupid?

[StoneofDestiny]

Listening to Tory after Tory coming on TV this morning and almost every one has mentioned Jeremy Corbyn as the fear factor in voting Labour at the next election. Seriously - is that the best argument they have got to steer the public disgust at this government's behaviour away from them?

A lot of people mistakenly conflating left/liberal/labour on here.

Leftists hate labour at the moment.

It’s easier to use left as it’s a safe bet the posts I’m responding to are not coming from the right, but if they are I’ll accept that

If Labour is hated that’s interesting in itself but we all get to choose (obviously)

You will note that I was careful not to ascribe a lack of critical thinking to people on the left or the right. It can occur across the political spectrum.

Everyone has a right to decide in a democracy , but when those decisions adversely affect other peoples’ lives, it’s reasonable for others to challenge the processes that led to their decision.

"hoodwinking"

😂

Where has education gone so very wrong!

Everyone has a right to decide in a democracy , but when those decisions adversely affect other peoples’ lives, it’s reasonable for others to challenge the processes that led to their decision.

I agree with the first part but the second is usually just (mostly one side) calling people thick etc so it’s not that constructive

This is the most sensible and thoughtful post on the trans agenda that I have ever read on MN and elsewhere.

@SteamingHind - I said the exact same thing to my husband yesterday. As a lifelong Labour supporter, I am really struggling over who to vote for after Keir’s “womangate” and other gender madness in the party. Saw Angela Rayner on Sky this morning with Kate Burley and thought she came across well but I need to read up more on her.

Of course Tory voters will blame Labour. In their wee heads, it couldn't possibly be the fault of 12 years of mismanagement of the country, law breaking and a targeted roll back of women's rights by Conservative policies.🙄

It feels like Labour only supports the causes they seem worthy

So for instance women are not a minority.

Trans right etc are. So they automatically support them.

It's not just starmer... it goes way back to the pink bus and beyond.

I also find it odd that anyone not openly trashing Boris is an automatic Tory.

It's so incredibly childish!

That’s not what I meant - calling people thick. I think there are wider questions about how well our culture and our education system serves its citizens.

@Summerwhereareyou Self ID was a Conserative proposal, part of their GRA reforms. Penny Mordaunt is one of those tipped to be our PM. The Conservative party is the only party with a Trans MP. They're a chaotic mess atm and every last one of them will drag women's carcasses back under the bus for that 1 vote.

Too big

It's such an important issue and it's complicated I hope groups representing women fully throw this open because it's slowly seeping into peoples consciousness.

It sure as fuck is a whole load more complicated than "at least the Tories know what a woman is". I feel sorry for any GC people who held their nose and voted Conservative in Bridgend. They have placed a primed and ticking TRA time bomb into the government.

We may not get to another GE before it goes off.

And yet TooBig cannot tell us who would be better on this issue and why.

There's just a lot of berating.

I also find it odd that anyone not openly trashing Boris is an automatic Tory.

Well, I've previously made the distinction that not all tory voters are stupid but all johnson voters are very fucking stupid.

Trouble is it wasn't easy to separate the two priot to partygate, but he was just as bad before that.

*johnson supporters, that should have said. Obviosuly you vote for your local MP, but there was no shortage of people who actively admired johnson 2019-2021.

@EdgeOfACoin I cannot tell you who to vote for in the next GE. I don't know who is standing. I don't know what their policies will be. I don't know exactly how bad a state we will be in by then.

What I can tell you today is the Conservative party is destroying women's rights, as they have been doing for the past 12 years. And right now, there's a TRA ticking time bomb in our government.

I can't tell you who to vote for in 2(?) years, but I can sure as fuck expose the lie that the Conservatives are good for women, or "know what a woman is".

I think there are wider questions about how well our culture and our education system serves its citizens.

I feel pretty lucky with my education and would like to introduce more media criticism, economics and feminism although latter is probably more niche. I don’t think I’m stupid or whatever so it doesn’t impact me but I’m up for more criticism when it comes to the media.

I don’t think anyone else deserves to be called thick though even if they vote differently to me

I completely agree. It’s excellent.

I didn't suggest anything about your voting preferences, I used an example from the last Labour government and made the point that the country wasn't, quite rightly IMO, holding Blair voters to account. Yes I do think you form part of a vitriolic group of authoritarians who think they have a right to demand everyone is accountable to them personally for their voting choice. I didn't vote for the Conservatives is 2019 (never have yet) but have managed not to spend the last two and a half years calling those who did stupid. I have the maturity to understand that not everyone sees the world the way that I do. It's democracy, you don't always get what you want.

You say the Conservatives "hoodwinked" the electorate in 2019, I think they stated what they stood for and people preferred what they were offering. Labour, the only realistically viable alternative, campaigned on a fantasy manifesto and a party riven with division. Their core voter base was sacrificed to identity politics. The day after the election they did not look to see where they had gone wrong, they concentrated on where the electorate had gone wrong: conclusion, voters were stupid. It's really not the way to persuade voters you have any respect for them or their concerns.

Whilst the morals and integrity of Johnson are questionable, to make the understatement of the century, the electorate voted for the party and its policies which they clearly preferred to Labours offering. Some people may think their vote was a mistake and others will be glad it wasn't Labour in charge throughout the pandemic. Why would you assume people votes are a mistake?

The voting booth is indeed a private matter, the accumulative results of every election affect us all, it is not unique to 2019 so unless you are suggesting we ban everyone you consider to be a fool from voting there is always a chance you will be disappointed. Your vote is no more or less important than anyone elses.

I agree @MarshaBradyo

Your vote is no more or less important than anyone elses

Actually it is. If you live in a stronghold your vote’s worthless. If you live in a marginal your vote’s incredibly important. Sadly mine’s one of the worthless kind.

Mine is completely unimportant. My MP refuses to sit. I have zero say in anything that happens in Westminster.

Agree with this. Any criticism about Tories is reduced to this debate, which to me, is something that will eventually be resolved somewhere in the middle ground (as best it can be as it is complicated). I haven't got a particular stance either way, but it annoys me when the 'Labour don't know what a woman is' gets put forward for EVERY criticism of the Tories. It is the new 'but Jeremy Corbyn...'

There have been so many law changes proposed lately that impact everyone. There is talk about women's rights being attacked with self-ID, but it is apparently ok for the Tories to attack the rights of all people, including our children's.