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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are Tory voters that stupid?

390 replies

StoneofDestiny · 07/07/2022 10:06

Listening to Tory after Tory coming on TV this morning and almost every one has mentioned Jeremy Corbyn as the fear factor in voting Labour at the next election. Seriously - is that the best argument they have got to steer the public disgust at this government's behaviour away from them?

OP posts:
antelopevalley · 07/07/2022 20:55

@x2boys I agree and wish conservative voters would stop saying this about SNP voters.

FOJN · 07/07/2022 20:56

Butteryflakycrust83 · 07/07/2022 15:35

The GC argument is so stupid, because all of the changes that have happened were under a Tory Government, so why pretend that they are saviours of women?

I'm not sure many people understand the background to the GC argument. The original GRA (2004) was passed with no consultation with women's groups, most people didn't know it the law had been passed. I'm such a good little liberal I was celebrating with a friend who had transitioned a few years earlier and why not? People with gender dysphoria are a tiny minority and my friend was no threat to women. I had no idea that women's groups were raising concerns about the legislation. I was a feminist and thought the battle was mostly won.

In the meantime trans groups were already laying the groundwork for self ID, the EA was still fairly new when they began floating the idea of removing sex as a PC and replacing it with gender. The Scottish prison service was the experiment in gaining public acceptance for the erasure of single sex spaces.

By 2015 the lobby groups had been hard at work arguing that the GRA was dated and needed reforming. The Women and Equalities Committee (a cross party group) produced a report which recommended self ID as part of a package of reforms for the GRA. All parties accepted the recommendations of the report, again no women's groups had been consulted. The committee's cavalier attitude towards womens rights is shocking, the report is available on line for anyone to read. They also recommended the EA was updated to remove the single sex exceptions. I repeat, all parties accepted the reports recommendations for self ID.

The lobby groups took this as a green light to start acting as if self ID was already law and organisations such as Stonewall, among others, offered diversity training which misrepresented the PC's in the EA. Their diversity champions scheme was another mechanism by which they changed culture and practice within our public institutions even when it was not aligned with the EA. They have since claimed they were "getting ahead of the law"!

LGBTQ became part of sex and relationship education, with no national curriculum for this type of education schools and teachers took advice from outside organisations which were little more than lobby groups. Many parents were unaware of the sometimes explicit and age inappropriate material being taught to their children.

The Conservatives have been the party of government since the Transgender Equality Report was produced by the Women and Equalities Committee. They thought all the homework had been done and it was simply a matter of putting a bill through parliament. Eventually women's voices were heard and they conducted a public consultation. The debate was already toxic but again most of the general population had no idea what was happening. Women were already being bullied on line, doxxed and reported to their employers. Trans lobbyist created a climate of fear and insisted no debate but women persevered. Eventually the Conservatives started they were not going to introduce self ID.

Since then they have taken a number of steps to begin to repair the damage done. There have been changed at the EHRC, reissued guidance on the EA and protected characteristics, clarification that single sex spaces are lawful and even people with a GRC can be excluded if the action is a "proportionate means to a legitimate aim". Several Conservative MP's have spoken in support of single sex spaces, fairness in sport and the material reality of biological sex; none of them have been threatened with expulsion from their own party or too afraid to go the party conference. There have been a number of related debates in Westminster Hall and the full Cass review on is expected later this year.

To say the Conservatives have done nothing when they realised their mistake is untrue. There is much left to do but they have made a star.

Meanwhile the Labour Party denied the Labour Women's Declaration and FiLia stands at their annual conference claiming they didn't have space, this was a demonstrable lie. I wonder if Rosie Duffield will feel able to go this year?

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 07/07/2022 20:56

antelopevalley · 07/07/2022 20:51

Am I not here then?
You just ignore what I say about many conservative voters as if I do not exist?
I almost feel I am talking to bots.

? Is that at me, I was agreeing with your previous points. The one directly above mine I hadn't seen

HRTQueen · 07/07/2022 20:57

I mentioned SNP voters being looked down on

comments like bots is an example 🙄

antelopevalley · 07/07/2022 20:58

@HRTQueen Did you? I had not realised. Sorry I misunderstood.

FOJN · 07/07/2022 20:58

Sorry for all the typos.

x2boys · 07/07/2022 20:58

antelopevalley · 07/07/2022 20:55

@x2boys I agree and wish conservative voters would stop saying this about SNP voters.

Nobody should be sneering at others for the way they vote .

antelopevalley · 07/07/2022 20:59

@OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen sorry I had not realised.

Lily073 · 07/07/2022 21:05

x2boys · 07/07/2022 20:54

It's the assumption that if you are a certain demographic, you should vote a certain way and if you don't then you have clearly been brainwashed or are just thick that pisses me off ,many working class people take an avid interest in politics and vote for the party who they feel best represents them ,that is their right and its called democracy ,just because others don't understand why people in that demographic would vote that way doesn't make people thick.

Well said.

WishILivedInThrushGreen · 07/07/2022 21:06

I often wonder why Labour voters have consistently been that stupid.

I remember Blair's ' do as I say, not what I do' when accused of profiteering.

I remember the Winter of Discontent in the 70s.

I have never voted for either other than when I was 19.

Please don't be facile and call voters, who don't agree with you, as being stupid.

Blossomtoes · 07/07/2022 21:08

Please don't be facile and call voters, who don't agree with you, as being stupid.

You mean like you just did.

TooBigForMyBoots · 07/07/2022 21:24

The Labour Party. Labour supporters. It's all to distract you from what the Conservative Party have done to Women's Rights and the country over the past 12 years. We are fucked on multiple levels. The economy, our fuel/food stability and our national security. And the Trans ideology that they have encouraged and continue to facilitate.

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 07/07/2022 21:32

And here we go again.

I care about why people vote, as in I care that they vote. I care about and respect the reasons that they chose to vote even if their reasons already diametrically opposed to mine. That doesn't mean I think I shouldn't try and convince them to my cause, but I don't think less of them if they challenge my view point with one of their own.
I am fed up with the easy comeback of 'bots' that isn't an argument it is a cop out.

TooBigForMyBoots · 07/07/2022 22:09

I didn't call anyone a bot.Confused

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 07/07/2022 22:11

Apologies Boots I went off on one

Summerwhereareyou · 07/07/2022 22:17

Really?
I've been watching all day and not heard a single mention of Corbyn?

I have seen "red wall" voters saying they can't understand why the person they related too and voted for has been "removed"?

They won't vote for any of the tory candidates, whether they will vote for Labour however remains to be seen.

If the female classification becomes main stream.... they will hemorrhage support.

Fun time's..

GreenLunchBox · 07/07/2022 22:23

Woman on BBC news: "I think he's been forced out. I think it's DISGUSTING what Labour has done!"

Summerwhereareyou · 07/07/2022 22:25

@FOJN

Thank you for this!

I must admit I've sort of missed what's going on because it hasn't related to my life.

Something really weird is going on and some group somewhere is Massively pushing this.

It's definitely filtering through to children.

Userg1234 · 07/07/2022 22:36

So I am stupid to vote for a party that actually has policies. That until last week was the only one that had a view on eu membership. A party that didn't say fuck all during the need it vote. A party that hasn't forgotten the white working class....ie the sector where only 16% of boys go to university. The party so concerned with being accountable that is Bristol mayor has banned several journalists from all press conferences

FOJN · 07/07/2022 23:20

Summerwhereareyou

My summary is a very brief history of some of the key events which have lead to where we are. The thread below contains links to resources and more detailed information. There is a thread linked within the one I've linked below called "Break it down for me", it started back in 2018 so includes a more detailed history.

You are right there is something weird going on. I think there are multiple agendas being pushed, a few are well intentioned and others not so much, the foot soldiers for these agendas are ordinary, decent people who want to do the the right thing but they are being mislead.

Of course it's also a gift for incels and MRA's who think it's a licence to abuse women with impunity; they seem to be right about that as very few ever face consequences for their vile behaviour.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4521371-New-visitors-start-here

EdgeOfACoin · 08/07/2022 06:40

FOJN, brilliant summary.

The difference between the Tories and Labour on this issue is that the Conservatives (on the whole) are prepared to listen to women on this issue. There are some who don't, but there is a discussion in the party.

Labour just bully those who don't subscribe to the groupthink - just see how Rosie Duffield was treated.

And that's the other thing I dislike about Labour right now. The authoritarian streak that runs straight through the party.

Whiskeypowers · 08/07/2022 07:58

x2boys · 07/07/2022 20:54

It's the assumption that if you are a certain demographic, you should vote a certain way and if you don't then you have clearly been brainwashed or are just thick that pisses me off ,many working class people take an avid interest in politics and vote for the party who they feel best represents them ,that is their right and its called democracy ,just because others don't understand why people in that demographic would vote that way doesn't make people thick.

i don’t think I will ever understand some of the voting made in 2019
i think that the conservatives contempt for working class people is palpable and swathes of them were in fact manipulated and brainwashed via Brexit and Corbyn into catastrophic acts of self sabotage the results do which are well and truly coming home to roost now

Whiskeypowers · 08/07/2022 07:59

Working class people and pensioners who don’t live in the Home Counties with wads of cash

x2boys · 08/07/2022 08:39

Whiskeypowers · 08/07/2022 07:58

i don’t think I will ever understand some of the voting made in 2019
i think that the conservatives contempt for working class people is palpable and swathes of them were in fact manipulated and brainwashed via Brexit and Corbyn into catastrophic acts of self sabotage the results do which are well and truly coming home to roost now

Just because you can't understand why people would vote a certain does not make them brainwashed, it is incredibly ignorant and arrogant to keep saying people were brainwashed because they don't vote the way you feel the should ,maybe try opening your mind to the fact that people can have different views to yourself.

CounsellorTroi · 08/07/2022 09:24

I don’t blame Ed Milliband. David was a Blairite and I didn’t want any more of that.

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