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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be delighted Maya Forstater won her employment tribunal.

234 replies

Norma27 · 06/07/2022 11:39

Maya Forstater WON. We should all breathe a sigh of relief. And organisations hr departments need to ensure they no longer discriminate for recognising biological reality. What a brilliant day for women.

OP posts:
cushioncovers · 06/07/2022 17:36

A victory for common sense and free speech!

This

Norma27 · 06/07/2022 17:38

I see mumsnet are still silencing women from saying the truth too. Although looks like they also deleted one of the angry person’s messages too.

OP posts:
ThreeRingCircus · 06/07/2022 17:39

Hopefully the tide is turning and woman is acknowledged as a sex class and not a feeling.

I really hope this is the start of the tide starting to turn.

@beautyisthefaceisee it is really important to base our laws in fact. People cannot change sex, it is biologically impossible. At the same time women have sex based rights in order to protect them, these have been hard-fought for. A male cannot suddenly say that being a woman is just a feeling in someone's head and therefore he is a woman and needs access to female spaces. That is how travesties happen like the well documented rape of a woman on a female hospital ward. Safeguarding is necessary to protect from predatory males.

This of course doesn't mean that all trans people are predators, I have huge sympathy for genuine trans people....it must be a difficult and painful path to have to walk but some predators have used the TWAW agenda to their full advantage.

Trans people need their own protections and should be free to live their lives free from persecution but this cannot be at the expense of women and girls' sex based rights.

Transwomen are not women, they are transwomen. Just as a transman is not a man, he is a transman. I would fully support the campaign for third spaces for trans people, or a debate on third categories or sex based biological categories in sport but I will not accept any group trampling on the biological rights of women in order to further their own belief system.

So Maya is brave. She knows that the TRAs and misogynists and other deniers of biology will have come for her but she stood her ground and has won. It's a great day for women and hopefully can be the start of a sensible debate on how we protect the rights of trans people.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 06/07/2022 17:40

Out of interest, since we are now in a world where truth matters over feeling * *

Hahaha of course truth matters over feelings. Well done to her for winning, it's great news!

Norma27 · 06/07/2022 17:44

@ThreeRingCircus brilliantly put.

OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 06/07/2022 17:46

Wonderful news

Along with Bette Midler and Macey Grey comments.......the tide is turning!

AlisonDonut · 06/07/2022 17:48

Norma27 · 06/07/2022 17:38

I see mumsnet are still silencing women from saying the truth too. Although looks like they also deleted one of the angry person’s messages too.

No, they have specifically reported anyone calling them a MRA/TRA [it isn't the first time] and said that is what they do when accused of being MRA/TRA, and I pointed out a few days ago, that's exactly what MRAs and TRAs do. So confirming the original observation.

SolasAnla · 06/07/2022 17:52

beautyisthefaceisee · 06/07/2022 16:32

No. It's a pretty sad day, and I will not 'celebrate' a woman who got a payout for hurting peoples' feelings. Certainly not.

I mean, good luck to her, cause I'd say her chances of getting another job after going public wiht her vitriol is pretty slim. I certainly wouldn't want to work with or for her, nor should anyone else.

🍿🍿🍿

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 06/07/2022 17:58

Willyoujustbequiet · 06/07/2022 17:46

Wonderful news

Along with Bette Midler and Macey Grey comments.......the tide is turning!

I really hope so!

hattie43 · 06/07/2022 18:00

Definitely a great result for common sense

babyjellyfish · 06/07/2022 18:03

BenCooperSuperTrouper · 06/07/2022 11:58

Garden Court Chambers will be shitting themselves. Well done Maya. Bring it home Allison!

Hopefully James Esses will be next.

Rowlingfan · 06/07/2022 18:05

@ThreeRingCircus

That is an excellent summary. I’m so pleased for Maya who has been brave and determined in the face of vicious nonsense. Hearty congratulations to her and thanks too. Maya, if you’re reading just know that women all over the UK are safer at work because of your determination to pursue this issue. I’m toasting your success with a big glass of wine!

RoseGoldEagle · 06/07/2022 18:08

Wonderful news, thank you Maya! And glad to see this is in AIBU, not just on the feminism boards. I feel like there’s been a change in real life too, friends who used to swiftly change the subject if this topic came up seem to be slowly, tentatively speaking out about how they feel; and the more of us who do that, the more of a snowball effect there will be- I hope! The idea that Maya may now struggle to find work has given me a giggle too, as if!!

Oblomov22 · 06/07/2022 18:16

What a waste of time that it needed to go this far.

Plet · 06/07/2022 18:16

Well done Maya. You are brave and inspiring.

And how concerning that anybody thinks we shouldn't live in a world where facts trump feelings. It's very disconcerting to read those words written by a person who appears to be reasonably intelligent. Do you really believe that we should live in a world where feelings trump facts? Whose feelings? What if both parties have the same strength of feeling? How do we decide who is right and who is wrong?

I wish I lived in this utopian land where women don't already deal with people freely making misogynistic statements on a regular basis. It's not some newfangled thing which will come about because of this judgment! Hearing and dealing with misogyny has been the experience of most women throughout all of human history. You're incredibly lucky if you're one of the few women who has ever existed to have either never experienced it or to be able to trust that the perpetrators will be held accountable and you will be protected. Stop trying to blame women for men's bad behaviour!

Norma27 · 06/07/2022 18:16

@AlisonDonut you are so correct. They just cannot stand the truth at being told what they are. Although they thought it was fine to call me names! 🙄 I am big enough to take their name calling and laugh at it though.

OP posts:
BordoisAgain · 06/07/2022 18:23

Wow, someone's really been triggered by this 😬

BordoisAgain · 06/07/2022 18:25

beautyisthefaceisee

Good luck to you when men are able to make sexist and misogynystic remarks to you "cause they're true".

They are

And I hope trans people tell you to "deal with it".

They do.

Your point?

misscockerspaniel · 06/07/2022 18:29

Thank you Maya for your courage and determination. And thanks to the wonderful Ben Cooper.

SolasAnla · 06/07/2022 18:35

DecayedStrumpet · 06/07/2022 17:23

I missed who Maya 'publicly humiliated', could anyone fill me in?

@DecayedStrumpet

There was a fake claim that there was a male who self identified as a woman in her office and that MF used male pronouns and was rude etc.

This was based in a Twitter text conversation with/about a beardy male also in twitter (who either claimed to be an nonbinary "they" or a transwoman "she") who MF never met in person.

comfortablyfrumpy · 06/07/2022 18:40

Excellent news indeed :)

TheCrowening · 06/07/2022 18:52

Yep, “publicly humiliated” “vitriol” yet entirely unable to explain what Maya has said, specifically, which would amount to either of those things. Because they clearly haven’t read the evidence and have chosen to believe knee jerk Twitter posts and the like.

I also used to be like this, reactionary based on an innate drive for “fairness” and combating oppression, and it was very easy to get sucked into a narrative. Then I decided that I really ought to do some more in depth reading to see why so many otherwise sensible and fair minded people were espousing these concerns.

then I saw the truth of it.

Sadly not everyone is capable of that level of thinking.

RhannionKPSS · 06/07/2022 18:54

Fantastic news! Congratulations to Maya, her lawyers and everyone who supported this. 💪💚🤍💜

RhannionKPSS · 06/07/2022 18:56

Now get that up you SNP/ Greens / Stonewall in Scotland ! Our beliefs ARE deserving of respect & our concerns ARE valid !

blubberyboo · 06/07/2022 19:05

So pleased with this ruling.
well done brave Maya