to wonder if BAME people care more than others about women’s rights?

[ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus]

Do BAME people care more about women’s rights?

Today I read about attorney general Suella Braverman opposing the SNP’s plan to
speed up gender self-ID. By allowing anyone to claim to be the other sex, self-ID would of course give every man (trans or not, sex predator or not) access to all women’s services and spaces.

Yesterday, it was the equalities minister Kemi Badenoch stating that all new public
buildings must have single-sex toilets.

Health secretary Sajid Javid has told the NHS to stop replacing words that have a female meaning (such as ‘woman’) with expressions such as ‘person with a uterus’. The NHS and many large organisations have been doing this to avoid offending trans people. But it is baffling to many people, who then risk missing vital health information.

Dame Kelly Holmes supports the Fair Play for Women campaign to stop males competing in women’s sports, despite transactivists’ aggression.

And so many heroic resisters have been fighting legal battles: Allison Bailey, Keira
Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Shahrar Ali …

And it’s not only the fight to keep women’s single-sex rights. Sajid Javid has also
refused to shut up about grooming gangs, despite being (unfairly) accused of racism.

Those are just the few I can think of on the spur of the moment. I know there are
many more.

Of course there are many other, non-BAME feminists and allies fighting against the
withdrawal of women’s rights and protections. But the percentage who are BAME seems very noticeable.

Any ideas why?

Bloody hell. I don’t know who cares more, I do know it’s time to stop fighting among ourselves while men (be they white, black or other) are slowly but surely taking away more of our rights.

Namechanger355 : I've been looking but can't find a single survey or poll that breaks down support for certain things ("women's issues") by race or ethnicity. That's weird !

Yeah I think that if you asked questions "How much do you agree...", should women have...

right to abortion
equal pay rates as men
equal rights in divorce
equal opportunities for education & training

I suspect WoC will be less supportive than white women in UK, USA, Australia or South Africa. Maybe France, Brazil & Mexico, too. I admit I'm failing to find a single poll on the subject, with breakdowns for women by race or ethnic group, so can't prove my suspicion. Very happy if I'm proven wrong.

I'm basing my suspicion on personal experiences, fwiw.

I think you are perhaps basing this on media coverage rather than actual activism/challenging rights.

White woman here who works in a very male world with a lot of ethnic minority colleagues.
The sexist abuse is constant but I am told it is cultural and to raise it shows I am racist.

Just last week - "you go and make the coffees ( for a meeting) and we will getting on making the big decisions"

My response was unprintable and i got advised I was being racist that a man of an ethnic background born in this country to parents who were born in this country, was unaware of the feminist issues as he had been raised in different culture.

Give me a break - no one owns speaking up about sexism more than the other group, we all experience it in different ways

I think it is due to privilege. If you're statistically more likely to have grown up in a position where people are generally all very 'nice' and 'nice boys' don't do things like that and it's all about being kind to people because you have so much compared to them, it's easier to not believe it's a potential risk.

However, if you're from a group where there is greater poverty or perceived risk - or where children are adultified - or you're more likely to have gone to a school with greater behavioural issues/a greater chance of being subject to abuse, you're going to see the risks more clearly.

Example:

Person #1: privately educated at a single sex school, has only been around 'nice boys', thinks 'Poor person, they just want to be happy, it won't hurt to be kind to them'.

Person #2: went to mixed sex sink school, sexual assault happened daily and nobody really cared compared to fights with weapons in the playground or at the bus stop, thinks 'Have you ever actually seen or met a teenage boy or man when you're in a vulnerable position? Have you ever been told that you must have misunderstood and he probably just likes you or well, you're a big girl, very grown up, so it's to be expected?'.

Person #1's privilege in always having felt safe means it just doesn't occur to them that it could be putting women and girls at risk - that kind of thing doesn't happen to them.

Person #2 hasn't had that same experience. But they know what it's like to a) not be safe and b) what it feels like when you actually are - and then somebody who doesn't have a clue is happy for your safety to be taken away from you.

I've heard teenagers discuss this in previous jobs. They have absolutely no idea what it would be like for them if they were to be suddenly parachuted into the nearest sink school. I've witnessed the shock on the face of privately educated boys when a girl from a nearby comprehensive has kicked off at one because he's made her feel threatened by landing on the seat next to her in way where his body made contact - her entire demeanour was attack being the only form of defence and it absolutely reminded me of how I had to be around boys at my own shitty comprehensive. You had to be explosive or the consequences could be horrific.

Of course people of all ethnicities can be wealthy or poor, etc, but statistically, it's the white middleclass who are the least likely to know what it's like when there's no protection or safe place for girls and women.

There's also an element of faith. White British are less likely to be of a practising faith. And of those faiths, the vast majority make it very clear that male is immutably male, no matter how a male chooses to present themselves.

Exactly.

If one wanted people to argue with each other (divide and conquer) one would post a thread very like this one.

Rather than just celebrating the wonderful women of all races fighting to free their sisters from the patriarchy.

Not a day goes by when one of these brilliant women pops up in my mind. Yesterday it was Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Today it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Tomorrow it might be Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie.

All awesome, all a voice for change.

No, "BAME" people do not care more about women's rights. The fact you even used that acronym tells me you probably don't know many in real life.

My firsthand experience (growing up with African parents) has told me many black and Asian people are religious. That doesn't exactly go hand in hand with women's rights for a start, it often rules out sex before marriage, abortion, single parenthood etc. And shrouds them in shame.

Not all but on average, these are more religious communities. Christians I know support single sex spaces not because they are 'GC' in a feminist way, but yes, reject gender.

Note: I DP often defend religious people's right to believe what they want. I'm just pointing out that no, "BAME" people are not more pro-women's rights on average.

Hi OP, are you out there or have you just posted and ran in order to cause a bunfight?

Well another way to put that is who cares less...

I don't think the Taliban are particularly hot on women's rights.

What I can say is that having worked on feminist issues with at least two of the women you mention in your OP - they would never make such a sweeping, goady statement as your OP and post it in AIBU. They're well versed in trolls trying divisive crap and trying to derail the cause by trying to start infighting.

This.

Well said.

Opinions are not assigned to anyone based on their race or ethnicity. No group is a monolith.

Dear me! I hate to think I’m causing anyone such rage. It’s not healthy. Could those who are enraged channel it into actions for women, eg writing letters or putting some extra into crowdfunders? I often find that helps me feel better.

I’m not claiming any in-depth knowledge. Just musing that about 10% of the UK’s population are BAME people, and whites have always had greater access to positions of powe. But the politicians and influential people I see in the news, defending women’s rights, seem disproportionately often to be non-white.

And someone please tell me what the acceptable expression is instead of BAME?

I’m typing slowly on an unfamiliar device, in bed with Covid, and I keep restarting to address different points. Better post now before I upset someone else!

Excet: KenDodd, the taliban aren’t BAME, they are the majority ethnicity in Afghanistan. And I was talking about people I see over here.

Because what the OP is saying is BAME women care more about women's rights tgan white women. You can fuck right off with that. Nobody gets to tell me that I care less about somthing because of the colour of my skin.

Stepaway, I was noting something I’d seen and asking if I had made a correct observation.

Why does saying something positive about BAME people hurt you?

Beats me too, Phishy. Thanks for your positive thoughts.

Re BAME, I am increasingly seeing BiPOC being used (usually by people of colour) at events.

Is this taking over from BAME/viewed as less problematic?

I hate the constant focus on race. All it does is cause division - as it has with this thread. There are people of all races and ethnicities fighting for women's rights and they are all important and valuable. I'm grateful to everyone who cares.

White feminism innit.

BIPOC is more usually an american term. The I stands for indigenous, which doesn't track as well in the UK

No it’s not true, OP. I’m white, and womens rights is the most important political issue to me by a mile.

Re Badenoch, Braverman and Javid - it’s a coincidence, and isn’t statistically backed up because it’s a sample of just three people!

I for one am hugely grateful to ANYONE standing up for womens same sex spaces and our rights, as it’s desperately needed, but no, it’s not more important to BAME people than white.

It often seems to me that the B usurps the ME. You never hear people say brown lives matter.

Those pesky angry black people eh, with their loud shouty voices daring to make themselves heard 🙄

If you want to go round saying brown lives matter go for it, I'm pretty sure there isn't a black person anywhere stopping you. But as a part brown person, I reject the notion that black people are usurping me.

BIPOC is more usually an american term. The I stands for indigenous, which doesn't track as well in the UK

I'm in the UK and definitely hearing it a lot at events. Never heard it before last year at all.

Oh yes I'm not denying its cropping up more, sorry if my post wasn't clear. Just that originally its more american, and as I say it doesn't track so well in the UK so I think could become problematic when some racist people latch onto the indigenous part

I've been hearing it for about 3-5 years but specifically until recently from American women I follow on social media