to wonder if BAME people care more than others about women’s rights?

[ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus]

Do BAME people care more about women’s rights?

Today I read about attorney general Suella Braverman opposing the SNP’s plan to
speed up gender self-ID. By allowing anyone to claim to be the other sex, self-ID would of course give every man (trans or not, sex predator or not) access to all women’s services and spaces.

Yesterday, it was the equalities minister Kemi Badenoch stating that all new public
buildings must have single-sex toilets.

Health secretary Sajid Javid has told the NHS to stop replacing words that have a female meaning (such as ‘woman’) with expressions such as ‘person with a uterus’. The NHS and many large organisations have been doing this to avoid offending trans people. But it is baffling to many people, who then risk missing vital health information.

Dame Kelly Holmes supports the Fair Play for Women campaign to stop males competing in women’s sports, despite transactivists’ aggression.

And so many heroic resisters have been fighting legal battles: Allison Bailey, Keira
Bell, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Shahrar Ali …

And it’s not only the fight to keep women’s single-sex rights. Sajid Javid has also
refused to shut up about grooming gangs, despite being (unfairly) accused of racism.

Those are just the few I can think of on the spur of the moment. I know there are
many more.

Of course there are many other, non-BAME feminists and allies fighting against the
withdrawal of women’s rights and protections. But the percentage who are BAME seems very noticeable.

Any ideas why?

What does the picture show, Vlad? The clothes look 1950s, quite a while before the Women's Liberation movement began. I can't see what's written on the placard. I don't think anyone used the term 'feminist' at that time.

Feminism is simply the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes. Adn a feminist is someone who believes in feminisim.

Unless of course you are claiming that white men are far more likely to be competent than black women and that's why the statistics are the way the are?

No, the whole point is that generalisations are not appropriate.

Now, if you want to be the cheerleader of a particular group you belong to, as you believe they will help you advance and benefit you in one way or another to the detriment of someone else (as the OP seems to be doing), go ahead.

of course they are.

You seem to be denying the entire concept of discrimination (gender or otherwise) and priviledge. Do you not believe those things exist?

You seem to be denying the entire concept of discrimination (gender or otherwise) and priviledge. Do you not believe those things exist?

Of course priviledge exists. The priviledge of being healthy, of being young, of being beautiful, of being born in a loving family, of having a high IQ. It's not always related to skin colour, sex (or wealth even)

Discrimination and also positive discrimination exist. Both are wrong

Well statistically, the most disadvantaged group in UK society is white, working class boys. But I bet that you don't feel any 'extra joy' when they succeed and achieve positions of wealth and power.

Statistically, across the board, with a shocking mortality rate, are the travelling community but they don’t even register for many people as existing.

Wow.

In any case they are excluded from coming under the umbrella of BAME on account of the colour of their skin. Which I find really bizarre.
So many opportunities for disadvantaged groups to be allies ruined by identity politics.

There aren't any stats, that is why the OP was asking to have others sense of the situation, she realizes her observation may be inaccurate.

Lots of time there are no statistics, that doesn't mean that something isn't the case. In fact it's either true or not, even if there is no statistical information.

Failure of education. Christ wept.

@Palmfrond

I dont know if the Roma community would agree.

Originally, certainly in my part of London BAME was Black and minority ethnic which included Irish, Jewish, etc communities

It has become defined now as something different but I think it originally replaced a broad term for anyone who wasn’t white ethnically English

Not in my experience. The BAME people network at my work actively tells us their issues should trump claims of sexism. Of course, that's a tiny number of people relatively.

Well statistically, the most disadvantaged group in UK society is white, working class boys.

Why do people only seem to bring up this particular group when they need to counter an argument. I find the treatment of WWCB abhorrent - it wasn't too long ago it took a football icon to bully the government into feeding these kids. Thing is the government hitherto don't give a shit about WWCB unless they can use them as a counter argument whenever the dire circumstances of black kids comes up. I see it again all the time in different topics like questioning why there isn't say an Asian history month or how comes there isn't a Travellers Lives Matter slogan.

Mom, as I said at 15.13 I like to see women of any ethnicity in power, as we are still far less powerful than men. Same for working-class people, especially women. So yes, I do like to hear of working-class men doing well, even though working-class women’s success pleases me even more.

It was said in response to a pp talking about how statistically black British women are worse off.

@VladmirsPoutine

Because the language and policies used indicate to people that there are priorities and a hierarchy of unmet/unaddressed needs.

I think this is a huge factor in causing social tension and division.

There is a perception that there is a system that we all slot in to and that due to historical/ current racism/ sexism/ disadvantage we need to address these issues in the system by creating a space to implement redress/support.

Its an incredibly simple way of refusing to recognise structural inequality whilst showing that the ‘structural’ element is being addressed.

And, it objectively pits black people against those seen as dysfunctional (white working class who won’t utilise the options presented to them to better themselves without recognising the way we have dehumanised and humiliated the w/c) and those we don’t even acknowledge) and treat with greater contempt than animals ( travelling community)

I really don't see how this can be a controversial statement at all. I'm sure for others it's different but for me personally seeing a successful and competent Black woman just inspires something within me that no other 'person' would. I'm sure for others seeing a successful xyz means a lot to them. I honestly think people like Serena Williams are nothing short of exceptional. I remember as a kid seeing a Black news presenter and of course I didn't know she was a news reader or a journalist or whatever but my mum still talks about how I approached the TV screen and just stared at the news reader as though she was other worldly.

Mom, as I said at 15.13

So is this supposed to be an insult - calling me 'mom'? Is it like calling me a Karen? Sounds misogynistic to me. What's wrong with being a mother? This is mumsnet!

I like to see women of any ethnicity in power, as we are still far less powerful than men

I don't totally agree with this statement. Women have equal opportunities in the UK, although in some areas it is certainly more difficult for us to achieve - often because of the demands of motherhood. A female prime minister doesn't have less power than a male prime minister, even though it might be harder for her to get there. I also think it's a bad idea to promote women to power simply on the basis that they are female. Theresa May springs to mind as a woman I probably wouldn't cheer for.

Honestly, this just sounds creepy to me. Black people are people, you know. Human beings. Not 'otherworldly creatures' to be gazed at and spoken of as if somehow different and amazing for being black.

Serena Williams is awe-inspiring because she is an incredible athlete, with all that entails. I doubt very much she wants to be tokenised and fetishised for her race, after how hard she's worked to achieve her amazing success.

FWIW, I think you would have to be more specific than "BAME".

But if you broke people down into different communities I do think you would find differences in terms of political opinions around women's rights. That would likely show a variety of different things around activism, what they think women's rights means, and so on.

But if we are talking about the kind of women's rights issues that center around the effects of identity politics, I think that non-white women may be more likely to feel comfortable questioning, or at least like they can, question that paradigm openly. We've all seen how women who have the wrong opinions get accused of being homophobes, racists, anti-Semites, etc.

Kind of like if you look, in the US, at the people who are on the forefront of questioning identity politics, a lot of them are black. It's not, I think, that black Americans are so much less likely to like id pol (though maybe somewhat that's so) but they may be less scared of being called bigots or challenged in their jobs. Even if they do get name called there is an obvious contradiction that may make them more inclined to speak out because it is so maddening. When you look at university faculty active in this area and you can see the ones who are black seem to have some protection compared to those who aren't.

I'm sure for others it's different but for me personally seeing a successful and competent Black woman just inspires something within me that no other 'person' would

Of course this is the case, as you would be identifying with the person in question. Others would feell inherent attachment to people who are similar to them. There's nothing wrong with that.

The problem is when role models are forced on others as if this feeling of admiration for someone was compulsory and there has to be something wrong with you if you don't hail xyz - as the OP is trying to do

Any ideas why?

YABU. I give you the single name that destroys your hypothesis: Prut Patel.

Illiberal to the extreme.

I doubt very much she wants to be tokenised and fetishised for her race

This is probably an accurate way to put it. Tokenisation and fetishisation of people

”Mom, as I said at 15.13” - So is this supposed to be an insult - calling me 'mom'? Is it like calling me a Karen? Sounds misogynistic to me. What's wrong with being a mother? This is mumsnet!

Bloody autocorrect! Autobuggerup, more like. Sorry I didn’t notice that, Beastly. I typed Mmm to mean Yes. I’d never call anyone a Karen as it’s a horrible sexist ageist insult. But Mmm/ Mom is rather funny…