Was this a harsh thing to do to adult son?

[MadeAMessOfParenting]

DS1 is 20 and there have been issues with screen addiction since he was a teen. We’ve tried many things to get him to regulate himself but he just won’t. He fucked up his GCSEs due to it.

He has not worked apart from a few months part time on 2 occasions since he left school. Did 3 years at college, dropped out in first year of A Levels and changed courses to a BTEC which he scraped through and started at Uni last September. I wasn’t happy at knew he wouldn’t work hard and told him to defer for a few years but he promised he would. Lives at home as accommodation costs £1k a month! but is only just over an hour away. I had told him to get job over the summer before he started Uni to save for the accommodation but he didn’t. He hasn’t actually attended since last November. Says it’s OK to do it online.

His days consist of staying up all night talking shit to his mates while playing games, then going back to bed in morning for the whole day. Doesn’t wash regularly, breath stinks and only goes out if his mates arrange something on the odd occasion.

He actually wakes up DH who works very long hours due to how loud he talks and there has been major rows about it.

He apparently can’t get a job. Hasn’t had one since he had a Christmas temp one, as he’s not getting replies to applications although he’s actually missed interviews as been asleep!

He doesn’t pay rent although I took money off him from his first student loan payment as he lost his Dads bike and damaged a car by riding into it which we had to pay for. He told his mates we were exploiting him financially!

Found out he has spent all his last student loan which he got in April probably on online games and now has no money left at all! Not on drugs as he doesn’t go out to use them!

We took him on a fabulous holiday abroad last month, all inclusive, loads of activities, pool, beach, evening entertainment to try to liven him up but he spent most of it in his hotel room! He was furious we made him come too.

I had told him if he’s going to continue at Uni this year, he needs to move out into halls as I refuse to support him any longer but his maintenance loan won’t cover this so he needs to earn over the summer. Still no job and he spent the day in bed today AGAIN despite saying he wasn’t going to. I went out and found him there after asking him to cut the grass having asked him for 2 weeks now.

He needs us to be guarantors for his Uni halls but I’ve told him no as he’s not reliable to pay his rent and probably won’t get a part time job then either.

I asked him many times whats going on, could he be depressed, told him to go to GP, ask for blood tests, ask for counselling but he can’t be bothered. He’s quite happy when he’s online with his mates though.

He has a big gaming PC which needs an Ethernet cable for WiFi. I have cut it and he doesn’t have the cash to buy another one which I won’t let him connect anyway. He says I had no right to damage his property!

I’ve also told him as he can’t afford to live in halls, he has to quit Uni and get a full time job as we won’t support him any longer so he can pay rent or get out!

He’s always been lazy despite being highly intelligent. used to be lovely but now has rages if he’s asked to anything, no respect and very arrogant and I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’ve lost the plot many times telling him how disappointed I am that he’s doing this and what the hell is he doing but he can’t seem to sort himself out.

AIBU?

Wow - some astonishing comments here. This is an adult - who has probably not been set boundaries at a young enough age and yes may well be neurodiverse (my own daughter is autistic so I understand it is harder to set boundaries)

BUT - only in the modern world would this be possible! It is totally unacceptable how he is behaving - if his family didn't have the money and room he would be out on his ear in most societies - he is a man child who has been pampered, forgiven, supported - all while his addiction increases

Replace the screens with the thought of a drug - ?? He is unable to wake at SIX PM for work because of this 'drug' - he is not able to go to his first day of uni - because of this drug - he needs urgent action!!!

The Op is absolutely right - the only thing I would say is this is actually not being treated seriously enough.

He needs to be told very clearly that he is addicted and that wihtout massively toning down his on screen life he will be unable to function in the world.

Then the wifi goes - the babying goes - he signs up for actual help with gaming addiction - OP - take whatever you can afford and get him into a gaming addiction programme or he is going to starve to deaeth at some point behind a joystick.

This.
OP as much as it makes sense to you that you were independent at 18 and telling him your husband did national service at 18, this massively backfired with my parents. They said they had no help so therefor they wouldn’t give me help. They couldn’t go on holiday as a teenager so when a friends parents offered to pay for me to go on holiday then I couldn’t go as they hadn’t had the opportunity. Fucked up.
so don’t let that be the reasoning you give him as that’s all that will stick in his head.
tell him you want him assessed for autism/ADHD, he can do that through uni. That if he does that in the next month he can stay. Then he gets internet until 2am and you learnt to cut it off etc. Then food like a poster said is basic and he does it himself and you teach him to use the washing machine, write out instructions and start. Then you can kick him out if you want but give it one more shot, twin with autism and he might be presenting differently.

Sounds very depressing for you OP. I don’t have any advice but just wanted to send some love. Really hope he wakes up and chooses to live his life rather than wasting it.

You do realise that you can’t just rock up to your GP and ask for an ASD assessment? Other professionals like teachers would also have to have concerns and referral would have to come from there.

No one had ever had concerns about DS1, nor have I. I have had many conversations with teachers since secondary school about it. He fell asleep in a Maths lesson once in Yr 9 due to creeping downstairs in the middle of the night to game! Absolutely mortifying.

I knew with DS2 from a year old. DS2 is just fucking lazy. He does not have ASD! There is a specific reason DS2 has disabilities and DS1 doesn’t due to his placenta not working properly.

PC is in downstairs office. I never let him have it upstairs due to him sharing a room with his brother and noise from talking but he is so loud, and shouts so can hear it upstairs. Never let them have the X Box/PS in their room either until the last few years.

He either needs to find a job to pay for accommodation in London or transfer to a uni in a cheaper area. Either way, he needs to be somewhere else in September.

OP cut his cable, costing a few £s... He lives rent and expense free, not partaking in any housework, and will probably stay like that if nothing is done as he sees it as an easy life. The cable is nothing, maybe if he wants a new one, he could try getting a job to fund a new one, instead of taking the mick out of his parents.

And ASD and/or ADHD isn't an excuse in this scenario. I have both, old diagnosis of "high functioning" ASD. It doesn't give him carte blanche to be rude and lazy, nor does it stop him from working. And if he is diagnosed, at 20 he is capable of exploring suitable careers or appropriate support, such as PIP, if he is actually unable to work.

I knew when you said his sibling was disabled that it would be ASD. I would lay money on the 'lazy' son having ASD too but you just aren't recognising it because you are wrapped up in caring for his sibling. I understand it must be difficult for you but your son needs understanding and guidance.

Hopefully this will be the prod/kick up the arse he needs to sort himself out! Sorry you are going through this. I am sad for anyone with any kind of addiction.

Literally everything you are writing is screaming ADHD. Stop focusing on ASD. ADHD is very very different. Look up child vs adult symptoms of adhd.

Classic high functioning ASD sign to think you’re always right - my DD is so stubborn (although awaiting assessment it’s bloody obvious she’s neurodiverse) and has fallen out with people because she doesn’t agree w their views. She’s always taking on a ‘cause’ as well.
As I said, unless they disclose how they feel/don’t mask, it’s incredibly hard to tell if some individuals are autistic/have ADHD.
Still doesn’t mean your son can’t function in society though and get a job as many people who are neurodiverse do. I think you need to really work with him facilitating this - start small w jobs around the house and work up. I would imagine his self-esteem is through the floor as well at this point.
What we’re his friendships like as a child pre-gcse?

@SquirrelSoShiny - when you go for adhd assessment you have to show traits through childhood and not just as an adult.

I'm not trying to be unkind to you, you are under a lot of stress. But I think in your focus on DS2 you have looked at DS1 and thought, thank god, he's OK, he's 'normal'. His difficulties have gone unseen.

Look up Adult ADHD assessment.

By the way, could you just switch off your modem? Then presumably he would not be able to access wifi on his phone either.

Yes and I suspect this young man had significant difficulties that went unseen beside his more obviously in need sibling.

I was exactly the same. When you're bright you can mask a lot. I was still diagnosed with blatant ADHD in my forties.

"You do realise that you can’t just rock up to your GP and ask for an ASD assessment? Other professionals like teachers would also have to have concerns and referral would have to come from there."

I'm a SENCO and it is definitely possible for schools to start the referral process without having any concerns of their own, but yes you would have had to kick that of. I am just thinking of ex students who have been diagnosed at university, or even later. When I hear of it I am often left feeling guilty that I missed it, but life gets more challenging at every stage and so it gets more difficult for bright kids to mask. But I can tell you are getting annoyed at the suggestion now so will leave it. I hope the tough love works. Good luck.

@fUNNYfACE36

“The idea is that parents make up the portion of the maintenance loan that the student isn't entitled to.
If you had done this and he had moved into halls at a uni, he would likely have made friends and engaged with the University experience. Living at home has kept him isolated from his new peers and new social opportunities. University gives most young people independence and the chance t o gly the nest.By refusing to act as guarantor ( which nearly every parent does) you are keeping him trapped

I think living at home with his parents and disabled sibling must be pretty grim fir a lad of 20, and the gaming is what keeps him going”

well you know what he can do if he doesn’t like living with his parents and disabled sibling??

stop being so bloody lazy, get a job and move out ! There you go, problem solved!

but something tells me he won’t be doing that for a while….this man has zero get up and go.

You both need professional counselling to get him in the right place. I'm not a counsellor and I don't have kids but I know someone who was in a very similar place to you and your son and this approach worked for them.
I'm not sure who they used but I think the starting point was the Mum talking to her GP. It took time, but I really do think there is a positive way out for both you and your son. Stay positive and take the advice of professionals.

Well done for taking stand - suggest you cut off wifi for most of the days by changing the access code. If he had to work for his gaming he would be a bit more appreciative of finances and how hard money is to come by. our poor DP - and you - both of you have been massively taken advantage of.

Oh my, he is a grown man. I would think I failed as a parent if my two girls ended up like that at 20 year old.

You are enabling this man and keeping him in a teenager mindset.

Could we stop blaming the OP. I’m sure with hindsight she’d have done things differently.

what about us all brainstorming some strategies for living with her DS? We’re all experienced and clever women with a lot of collective wisdom, particularly around SEN, disability and strategies for getting some sort of input from professionals.

Or for finding ways to get him out of the house.

Or for ways that @MadeAMessOfParenting could look after herself and the rest of her family - I’ve suggested Al Anon as her DS is clearly an addict.

What other practical strategies could the OP and herDH implement?

Instead of blaming her. She is where she is. She needs to start from where she is.

Good luck and hugs @MadeAMessOfParenting

I’ve been a university personal tutor to quite a few young men behaving like your DS over the years. There’s pretty much always some sort of mental ill health issue underneath the appalling and self-sabotaging behaviour. If they don’t shape up, we exclude or fail them. This usually precipitates a family crisis as the parents generally have no idea. At least you KNOW the problem.

Wow 8 pages in and only the 2nd person to say I have adhd and do xyz and so everyone else should…..
you understand it’s a spectrum don’t you?
and that one persons abilities will be different to the next? There’s a reason you’ve pursued a diagnosis I’m sure? And as such you’ve been able to put things in place for yourself to manage your job etc….
should the op son OP not bother then because Burgo can? Any other conditions you manage well that the rest of us can now just get in with without seeking help?

Sorry OP but I'm another one coming on to say this really really looks like untreated ADHD and possibly ASD too. My daughter and I are both diagnosed with both conditions... it took her to get to age 19 to be assessed properly because schools couldn't see any issues. I was diagnosed in my late 40s and most people, including family, were surprised and had no idea. I myself was shocked to find out I had ADHD but it made so much sense when I found out

You say of your diagnosed-Autistic son " Even he isn’t in bed all day, helps with chores, wants to be doing something" I suspect this is because his ASD is more noticeable to others and so he is not expected to 'fit in' to an NT world and therefore is under less stress to do so (mask). This leaves him able to function better at home and help with chores etc. If your 'lazy' son is actually undiagnosed ND, then he will be feeling a lot of confusion, stress, exhaustion, and basically disliking himself, because he is being expected to mask. His gaming is a comfort and escape, and if he has ADHD (which from your posts I would suspect even more than ASD), then he is getting his Dopamine from gaming and will not really be in control of it... this is why many ADHDers end up with addictions of one type or another. People with ADHD are also more likely to naturally sleep during daytime and then be up during the night

Like others have said, I suspect one of your twins is going undiagnosed because the other appears to other people as more obviously ND. That does not mean your DS1 is not struggling or suffering or finding life as difficult (or possibly more difficult) that DS2

Please don't ignore all of us pointing this out, and I say this as someone who had to navigate the first 47 years of this life undiagnosed. Your DS needs your help. Have a read up on adult ADHD and ASD in relation to DS1, rather than DS2

And just to add...
You do realise that you can’t just rock up to your GP and ask for an ASD assessment? Other professionals like teachers would also have to have concerns and referral would have to come from there.

Of course* *you can just 'rock up to your GP', for both ASD and ADHD (different assessments), that's exactly what most of us missed in childhood have done, including my DD who the GP referred while in her teens and still at school. Schools don't have the capacity/funding to refer all kids for assessments, so the ones that have learnt to mask, fly under the radar until they can no longer cope

I’d throw the fucking thing out of the window, so cutting the Ethernet was entirely reasonable.

What an entitled shit bag.

^this in spades.

I have twin DC. DS was diagnosed at age 4. High needs. DD wasn’t diagnosed until she was 10 and only then after I pushed hard and we got a new SENCO who understood presentation in girls.

I think there’s a very good chance that ADHD/ASD applies to the OP’s son. But she’s so intent on her narrative that he’s worthless and lazy (I mean, criticising his breath for being smelly - really????!!!!) - there’s no way she’ll consider that actually he’s genuinely struggling.

There’s also some inconsistencies in what OP said. One minute he’s “ barely scraped through” his Btech and the next minute he’s attending “one of the top universities in the country for his subject”. If he got shitty results I doubt somehow he’s at the very best university in the field.

While I understand the OP’s son must be infuriating it feels like she’s exaggerating for effect, and just doesn’t really like him. She’s flat out unwilling to even consider the fact that he might be undiagnosed. I’m autistic and have ADHD - I went nearly my whole adult life without being diagnosed, no one spotted it. My DC being diagnosed led to my diagnosis and everything makes sense now.

And for all the people rolling their eyes at adhd/autism being mentioned - the fact a twin brother has it puts him at a high probability of having it too. His behaviour screams neurodiversity but it’s much easier for OP to carry on cutting his cables and slagging him off.

Of course you can just "rock up" to your GP and ask for an ASD assessment! How do you think adults get diagnosed?

I have adhd have you considered whether he might have adhd?