Was this a harsh thing to do to adult son?

[MadeAMessOfParenting]

DS1 is 20 and there have been issues with screen addiction since he was a teen. We’ve tried many things to get him to regulate himself but he just won’t. He fucked up his GCSEs due to it.

He has not worked apart from a few months part time on 2 occasions since he left school. Did 3 years at college, dropped out in first year of A Levels and changed courses to a BTEC which he scraped through and started at Uni last September. I wasn’t happy at knew he wouldn’t work hard and told him to defer for a few years but he promised he would. Lives at home as accommodation costs £1k a month! but is only just over an hour away. I had told him to get job over the summer before he started Uni to save for the accommodation but he didn’t. He hasn’t actually attended since last November. Says it’s OK to do it online.

His days consist of staying up all night talking shit to his mates while playing games, then going back to bed in morning for the whole day. Doesn’t wash regularly, breath stinks and only goes out if his mates arrange something on the odd occasion.

He actually wakes up DH who works very long hours due to how loud he talks and there has been major rows about it.

He apparently can’t get a job. Hasn’t had one since he had a Christmas temp one, as he’s not getting replies to applications although he’s actually missed interviews as been asleep!

He doesn’t pay rent although I took money off him from his first student loan payment as he lost his Dads bike and damaged a car by riding into it which we had to pay for. He told his mates we were exploiting him financially!

Found out he has spent all his last student loan which he got in April probably on online games and now has no money left at all! Not on drugs as he doesn’t go out to use them!

We took him on a fabulous holiday abroad last month, all inclusive, loads of activities, pool, beach, evening entertainment to try to liven him up but he spent most of it in his hotel room! He was furious we made him come too.

I had told him if he’s going to continue at Uni this year, he needs to move out into halls as I refuse to support him any longer but his maintenance loan won’t cover this so he needs to earn over the summer. Still no job and he spent the day in bed today AGAIN despite saying he wasn’t going to. I went out and found him there after asking him to cut the grass having asked him for 2 weeks now.

He needs us to be guarantors for his Uni halls but I’ve told him no as he’s not reliable to pay his rent and probably won’t get a part time job then either.

I asked him many times whats going on, could he be depressed, told him to go to GP, ask for blood tests, ask for counselling but he can’t be bothered. He’s quite happy when he’s online with his mates though.

He has a big gaming PC which needs an Ethernet cable for WiFi. I have cut it and he doesn’t have the cash to buy another one which I won’t let him connect anyway. He says I had no right to damage his property!

I’ve also told him as he can’t afford to live in halls, he has to quit Uni and get a full time job as we won’t support him any longer so he can pay rent or get out!

He’s always been lazy despite being highly intelligent. used to be lovely but now has rages if he’s asked to anything, no respect and very arrogant and I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’ve lost the plot many times telling him how disappointed I am that he’s doing this and what the hell is he doing but he can’t seem to sort himself out.

AIBU?

Thanks all.

DS1 does NOT have ASD or ADHD! Yes his twin has ASD and a learning disability and him having ASD was explored years ago. Not by formal assessment though as it took 6 years for DS2 to get formal diagnosis of the ASD.

He is not avoiding social interactions by not going to Uni. He immediately made a big circle of friends when he first started. Crashed over in their halls a few times over the weekends. He actually pissed them off with his views on something, was challenged so ‘unfollowed’ them in anger which is a major social faux pas, was challenged on that and now does not speak to any of them. That’s why he won’t go into Uni! We have tried again and again to tell him not to fuck up his course for something as stupid as that and it would have been forgotten.

He is extremely arrogant and hard headed, thinks he’s more intelligent than anyone else and we know nothing of course.

He is walking around the house laughing at videos on his phone atm. That was also an addiction a few years back. Watching jackass type videos and listening to KSi on You Tube.

There’s no way I’m giving him a penny for Uni! It’s bullshit that parents are expected to facilitate their adult children’s choices! I left home at 18. DH was doing National Service at 18! He’s laying in bed all day, flushing his loan money down the toilet and not doing the work!

Did posters saying that not read that I have been DS2’s carer with a younger DC too(11), only recently started working, struggled on DH’s wage only for years with him working his arse off. The holiday was our first ever since we had the twins! He ruined it despite saying he wanted to come at first, then expected me to cancel his ticket knowing we wouldn’t get a refund! No way is money from me working going to him so he can carry on dossing. Nuts!

At least he slept last night and is up as no PC last night!

YABU - having lavished expensive holidays on him and supported him in expensive uni accommodation (cutting the cable is just a tiny part of this). How did he get to uni if he couldn't be bothered to resit English GCSE? He needs to move out - maybe one of his generous friends will take him? You also need to better support his twin. You can get the support you need to find him appropriate training, to move forward- there are agencies who can help (my son is an adult with disabilities).

If he hasn’t been assessed you have no idea if he has ASD or ADHD. You are abusive and neglectful. Do not destroy others property and act like a parent and step up to your moral obligation to pay the difference between the maximum loan so he can live in halls.
You are responsible for most of this situation not your ds.

That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read on here. He would have to be an evil psychopath to do that.

From your OP, wouldn’t he say that he is doing what he can and you are being unreasonable? He has joined a university, and is attending online as the university allows. He can’t move to live in and have a direct social life on his doorstep like the others as he can’t afford it as you won’t act as his guarantee or as you trust him less than his equally broke friends parents trust them. He has tried (and continues to try) to find supplementary work as you ask and in fact has had two temporary jobs, but the employment market for a 20yr old full time student with middling-to-poor GCSEs isn’t great. He games as an escape from his situation as he is socially isolated and lives with his parents, who are burned out from manual work and care responsibilities for his twin. You pressured him to leave his escape and his online support network of loyal friends to go to the beach, which he made clear he didn’t want to do, and then guilt tripped him for not being suitably grateful. He has passed his first year but you are constantly on his case, calling him lazy, and are aggressively changing the goalposts for your support - which is already less than many or even most students receive (which he might understand is out of your control or not, but will still feel unfair). As the final straw, you have gone into his room and damaged his property, illustrating double standards (you were very against property damage during the bike incident) and also possibly actually committing a crime against him as he is now an adult and the pc was a gift from his also adult friends, not provided as part of the house and therefore arguably your property also. This is has left him isolated from his support network, which probably feels abusive to him as you already have a lot of power over his life.

I agree that he does need to wash and attend important appointments, and try his best to not wake his father, but he isn’t a two year old acting up and you are treating him very aggressively and with absolutely no benefit of the doubt whilst he is in a vulnerable position.

YANBU OP. I would tell him that he needs to pass his course or get a job & start paying an appropriate amount of rent considering he’s now an adult. Or he’s welcome to move out, you can’t afford to keep him for free, as you will not have the funds to do so. His choice. And he’s to stop preventing you from sleeping, & do an appropriate share of the housework if he chooses to stay.

The "old and incapacitated" comment made me laugh. All they will care about is their money and food supply and personal staff services have gone. They certainly won't be helping their parents, if they wanted to, they don't know how to adult.

OP have you thought about showing him this thread?

I am seeing mum later, so will ask after the friends who have these 40 somethings in their houses. But I do know that many of them aren't in touch much. The situation kind of envelops them and is a real downer.

i wish you the best of luck with it.

Would he consider a job where you live in? If he joined an agency that offer that kind of work it may at least put him on the road to independence?

Interesting..
So his twin has ASD..
Autism is hereditary so the odds of having another child with it are higher. Also, especially those with what would be known as 'High functioning autism' are not picked up until teenage or even adult years.
Your description of his behaviours, especially with his friends certainly sound like that of an autistic person.

You can usually disable the Ethernet ports in the router settings, and also restrict to only known/trusted devices, so you could have kicked the machine off the internet without cutting the cable.

BestZebbie and a few others seem to have missed the fact he has a good social life and those friends are giving him money.

I applaud you op. Life is difficult for most people. You are showing him some tough love after chance after chance. You are right to totally cut off his gaming. He is addicted. If he was my son I would do the same. I would also buy him some books and running gear and tell him his new hobby is couch to five k and reading and to ease him into work gently I would get him to do volunteer work for a cause he cares about and build up his cv. He is clearly not ready to attend uni. If you don’t do this now then look at so many posters on mumsnet where the uncle, brother whatever is still at home gaming at 40+ with elderly parents. HE needs help to stop this destructive behaviour and I think you and your DH are stepping up for him And showing him a lot of love. Good for you.

I would pay first month's rent and deposit on a room in a houseshare, pack up his stuff, move it over there and telling him this is where he lives now, take the key to your house off him and tell him he isn't coming home, it's time to grow up. Warn him that he has one month's rent paid and he needs to do it in future so needs to either find a job or a comfy looking bus shelter. Refuse to help. He needs to grow up.

Ha ha. That has given me a chuckle!

We have no moral obligation to shell out thousands of £s for him to decide he wants to doss for a further 3 years to further delay being an adult, working and paying his own way.

We were clear that he needed to work over the summer last year to top up his Uni loan and then work part time while studying due to the cost of living. Perfectly doable. His choice not to, His choice to go to Uni.

His older sister also lived at home during Uni, worked part time all the way from 1st year at college at age 17 and full time in summer.

OP you sound at the end of your tether. So many people on here saying do this, or do that.
No one on here can advise you what do to because they are not in your position, and their child is not your child.

Take on board everything all the posters have said, then take a step back and decide what is best for your son, AND your other children, you and your husband.

I will say the world does not revolve around your son when there are other people to think of in the family, and it isn’t as easy to say to support him through uni and pay for him to reside in halls, if you don’t have the money to do that, you don’t have the money to do that.

Whatever you and your husband decide to do, you will need to stick with it and not waiver, that is the road you must stick with. Once you have both decided, sit with your son, discuss it with him and see what he thinks then work from there.

Sending you massive hugs.

Jordan Peterson gets a lot of hate on MN some of which is probably deserved BUT I have heard anecdotally of a few young guys who really thrived following his 'rules'. I always feel conflicted because some really unpleasant people online treat him like their grand wizard but I guess it's like saying the Westboro haters and your local church follow the same bible.

That said, I have ADHD and some of the things you're saying ring bells. Worth a conversation maybe.

I don't mean to question your judgment, but I wonder whether it might be worth revisiting the possibility of an ASC diagnosis. Everything you say is screaming it, even your update. If he never had a formal assessment, how do you know? He may appear NT alongside his high-needs twin but it doesn't necessarily mean that he is.

If you are absolutely confident that he is not, that there is no diagnosis to be made, that there are no mental health issues, then I guess tough love and consequences are the options left. But you will have to follow through.

Maybe she wanted to cut the cable. Maybe she's not interested in the high ground that other posters have mentioned. Maybe she just wants the ground back that her lazy dosser of a son is busy stinking out. I'd be cutting more than his ruddy cable if he was living at mine.

OK your update is actually more ADHD. Seriously. Don't be Blinded by your son's autism and not see his twin's possible ADHD. The two have significant overlap.

Take action now or you will have a 40 year old manchild bullying you in your own home.

As the years go by he will resent you being in what he will see as his inheritance.

@MadeAMessOfParenting

"Those saying I shouldn’t have cut his cable - what else do you suggest? He could just plug it back in again when we’re in bed and still stay up all night!"

You don't have a right to damage someone else's property. If he did that to your things you would be furious. He may well rebel as a F you anyway and as he is an adult you won't be able to enforce much if that happens.

AND

He needs to get a grip and do something. Sadly we make a rod for our own backs when we tolerate this nonsense when they are younger. At what age do we start saying enough is enough and putting in a consequence. So far he hasn't had an aversive enough consequence to do what he needs to do.

@EmmaH2022 "If you can afford it, I wonder if it's worth paying for halls and ordering his food each week. Everything else, he has to fund."

Stop enabling him! He needs one hell of a consequence to get him moving!

@Vikinga "Could he have something like adhd?"

Oh stop! Lets not give people excuses. Even with ADHD there is no reason he can't get a job. He needs to get his act together and if he had ADHD he is going to have to do something to countermeasure the symptoms (e.g. set alarms, use planners etc). I've gotten by with ADHD in a demanding, high pressured job and I am massively impacted by the symptoms daily. But I am not willing to allow people to give me an "out" by blaming ADHD. Its ludicrous.

Oh my, he is a grown man. I would think I failed as a parent if my two girls ended up like that at 20 year old.

You are enabling this man and keeping him in a teenager mindset.

Oh a side note, my brother used to be like that. He was forced to get a job (a tiny few hours a week) so that he spoke to actual people IRL. it took several months but he now has a group of friends who he hangs out with and he isn't online as much.

Has he any actual friends IRL? if not that may be start.

OP, I mean this kindly but you sound frazzled and worn down with it all. You have been fighting to support DS2 and so is it possible that by comparison you have seen DS1 behaviour as more neurotypical? However, as other have alluded to perhaps he too is actually neurodiverse but on a different part of the spectrum. Your description of some of his behaviours suggest that could well be possible and is coming to light now. He too needs support. Could he complete his degree through Open University, you can transfer credit from his first year. Best wishes to you and your DS1.