Pronouns - Can someone remind me why we are against this in emails

[landantan]

Hi

Can someone remind me why some people (likely myself included) does not agree with stated pronouns in email signatures?

It is being requested at work from the perspective of being a small step to being an ally to LGBTQ+ community.

I just think it is a bit pointless and whilst I have nothing against this or any other community I cannot see what knowing or sharing pronouns really does apart from make you look like a bit of a tit.

Can someone offer a more articulate explanation please?

I don't think you should be calling people something you can't define.

A person (not woman) identifying as the sex they were born with.

"Cis" is short for "cisgender".

Calling someone "cis" means you are defining them by reference to gender.

This is inherently offensive because gender is just regressive and sexist stereotypes.

We have the right not to be defined according to these things.

Regressive and sexist? Maybe.

And transpeople have the right to their definition, despite the fact you think it's made up.

Almost no one "identifies as the sex they were born with".

Very few people think accepting the reality that you have a vagina and not a penis - or vice versa - is an identity.

In reality I think only trans people believe this is an identity, and a few people like you are willing to pretend you believe it is one in order to "be kind".

Yeah but what they don't have is the right to define me - as "cisgender" - or redefine me - by appropriating the word "woman".

They need to get their own vocabulary for their religion and leave the rest of us out of it.

Almost no one "identifies as the sex they were born with".
How can you state that as fact?
I certainly do.
I'm not arrogant enough to presume I'm the only one who does, either.
So there must be more.

Great, what does that mean to you?

What are you identifying with?

I accept their belief, yes, absolutely. Nothing to do with being kind.

Why should i accept your belief that cisgender is offensive when logistically and legally it isn't when you won't accept my trans friends?

I accept my Christian friends' beliefs. I do not share them.

Do you genuinely believe that you "identify as" your sex?

So I'm an atheist. Massively so.

Can I then tell the people I know that granny isn't really "going to be with x" but she is going to be in her coffin?

Can I refute that anyone is "off to be a better place" or "in peace"?

Do my views count over what I think is a made up ideology?

NO?

Why not?

Right, but no one is trying to make you pray to God or observe Ramadan.

That's the difference.

Oh come on, Keating,. I can't win here

Thats pretty much the point.

You cant 'treat trans women as women' and simultaneously safeguard same sex spaces for things like rape crisis centres.

Its not possible. Those positions contradict each other.

But you don't want to engage with that contradiction. You want to fudge it and then call anyone who points out the issues with unilaterally 'treating trans women as women' as transphobic.

Despite the fact that it's actually totally in line with your own position.

Of course you are.

At weddings, at funerals, at Easter, at Christmas, whenever anyone posts anything about the afterlife on social media which is most days.....

Well, if you want to push me, which you clearly do, you will push me towards being pro trans, come what may.

Because you wont let me support trans but support feminists in certain situations.

so do I.

Do you genuinely believe that you "identify as" your sex?
Yes.

yes.

Nonsense.

All of these things are optional and you can ignore them.

You can also shout from the rooftops about how it's a load of made up rubbish, if you are so inclined.

You can share atheist material on Facebook without worrying about whether you might get into trouble at work.

No one is trying to make you state your denomination in your email signature or swap your lanyard for one covered in religious imagery to celebrate "theist pride".

And no one has decided that instead of having toilets and sporting categories for men and women we are going to organise them by Christians and Muslims instead.

What are you identifying with?
It literally says in the bit that you quoted, so what exactly is it that you're struggling with?

What the heck does that mean when it's at home?

What are you identifying with?

What, you think "yep, last time I went to the loo I still had a vagina and not a penis" is an identity?

Surely even "GC" people think that sex and gender aren't necessarily the same?
So why don't you understand that I identify as female for both?
I don't get what's so hard to grasp personally

Gosh, no.

Of course they're not the same.

Sex is actually real. Gender is imaginary.

I have no idea why anyone has any expectation that these two things - one real, one not - should "match", or why having an imaginary gender which doesn't match your real sex makes you unusual and deserving of special treatment.

Do you celebrate Christmas and Easter?