Page 9 | To be upset by what I heard from next door

Everythingnotsavedwillbelost22 · 2022-06-30T06:11:16+00:00

My Neighbours have 2 young kids- eldest is about 2 and a 6 month old baby. DP and i went to a gig last night & our kids went on sleepovers and we got back late. Anyway, we got in at about 1am and all I could hear was the mum shouting at the hysterical screaming older child- it sounded like the 2 year old had woken up, woken them up and wouldn’t go back to sleep (I could hear this thru the walls as we are terraces). She was shouting at the child to go back to sleep, the child was hysterical & it went on and on and on - then it sounded like she left the child on their own and the child was possible throwing themselves about as there was repetitive banging because she had left them in their room. This went on for 2 hours & kept me awake- I must have fallen asleep at about 3am. it was AWFUl to hear it though- the was she was shouting at the child, the hysteria of the child etc. It’s really upset me as the child sounded so distressed, particularly the repetitive banging. it’s not the first time either. Aibu to feel upset- what do you do?

ZooKeeper19 · 01/07/2022 23:19

@Staryflight445 certainly doesn’t mean a child is being abused. If a partner screams at another partner it's abuse. Screaming is abuse.

OP I am not sure if I'd have gone around myself asking if they are OK, or called the police (or A then if unsure B) but I so get why you are upset, I'd be too :( it's never OK. We all should care what happens to others. It matters. Thank you for caring.

whynotwhatknot · 02/07/2022 00:00

Its right there in the op its not the first time its happened

so if everyone can get off their high horse abot reporting something thats only happened once

Redbushteaforme · 02/07/2022 00:20

I’m shocked at the ‘report it’ mentality over this.
I wouldn’t report it, I would however have them on my radar and I would speak to her to see what went on.
unless you think there’s actual abuse going on I wouldn’t report op. They’re so overstretched you could take away the opportunity for an abused child to get seen faster.

It isn't up to OP to decide what is going on. It is her responsibility to report her concerns though. That is standard child protection advice.

Ash2956 · 02/07/2022 00:33

Some of these responses make me worried about a lot of children out there. Children are a precious gift and should be cherished. If they have difficulty communicating then you need to be patient, take time and calm them, let them know they are safe and loved. Screaming at and leaving them to cry alone is not appropriate. If you are having trouble coping ask for help. Family, charity or Social Service, we all need help sometimes. Please get the help you need. 👍

Blackheath95 · 02/07/2022 01:29

User112 · 30/06/2022 14:37

That banging is so scary. Normal 2yr olds don’t throw themselves around. At worse they cry really loudly for attention.

please get them help OP. Please!

Have you ever met a 2 year old?

mathanxiety · 02/07/2022 03:15

@Travelplans, did you screech or shout angrily at your child at any point during the incident you described?

The OP states that she clearly heard the mother next door shouting at the child to go to sleep. A parent fully in control of their emotions and trying to calmly guide a child through a bad night would realise that repeatedly shouting at the child to go to sleep would result in a child so panicked that sleep would be impossible.

The parent shouting at the child had lost it and was throwing a massive bullying tantrum herself.

And not for the first time, apparently.

This is the difference between your response to your child and that of the OP's next door neighbour.

Alison20 · 02/07/2022 03:28

Maybe chat first and observe interactions between child and parent. People have no idea how extreme sen kids can get. Reporting a parent is not necessarily going to help.

adhd asd kids can regularly throw things, refuse or be unable to go to sleep, scream, strop, shout. They can hit/ bite parents over and over. They are in distress but not caused by parents. Unless you have dealt with it, it may be hard to understand that there will be times a parent would be frequently without patience and resources and might be dealing with things well and in a loving caring way most of the time. Types of behaviour can be constant and unrelenting. There is very very little help. The parent may not even understand what is going on at the age of two. People always tend to blame parents rather than see the underlying issue especially early on.

crimblecrumbles · 02/07/2022 03:55

I don't think with all the horror stories in the news right now you can afford to be cautious. You would never forgive yourself if you did nothing and something awful happened. Sleep deprivation is horrible but I would never shout at my young child at night. They are probably not waking to be naughty! They probably need comfort. Also once a child is riled up they are not going to sleep any time soon. Sounds like she is struggling. If you are on good terms then have a word and ask if she's ok, mention what you heard, ask if there is anything you can do, share sleeping stress stories etc. but if not I'd report her

supersop60 · 02/07/2022 06:55

Staryflight445 · 30/06/2022 07:31

I’m shocked at the ‘report it’ mentality over this.
I wouldn’t report it, I would however have them on my radar and I would speak to her to see what went on.

unless you think there’s actual abuse going on I wouldn’t report op. They’re so overstretched you could take away the opportunity for an abused child to get seen faster.

We all have a duty to report if we think there is abuse. Screaming hysterically at a 2 yr old is abuse. My dd would only sleep for 2 hrs at a time till she was 4. I never screamed at her.

Bellee11 · 02/07/2022 07:49

If you are worried about to report it on mumsnet then that is probably a sign that it should be reported to authorities. Screaming at a two year old is abusive and we all have a duty to safeguard. Even unintentional abuse counts as abuse.

That being said, my son used to wake it every night at 3am with a night terror and he would scream the house down. The more we tried to comfort him, the worse it got. It took us a very long time to realise the best thing to do with a night terror is to monitor from a distance rather than try to cuddle him or soothe him.

It may well be the case that she needs some support and advice, which can hopefully be provided by professionals. Of course you could also maybe reach out as a friend and try to have a supportive chat about it.

Bellee11 · 02/07/2022 08:11

It is also concerning that you listened to a child in distress for two hours but didn't do anything about it at the time even though you were worried. If it was as bad as you describe, a polite knock on the door to see if things were OK perhaps?

People need to be more proactive and brave in situations like this. There is nothing wrong with knocking on someone's door to see if they are OK. Reaching out can make all the difference.

I work in education. Sadly, child abuse is more common than people realise and the abusers walk among us. Bad things happen when people do nothing.

Alison1978 · 02/07/2022 08:27

You should make a MASH referral via your local authority Children's Services. It’s possible to do it via email or telephone.
Dont ignore particularly as you as this isn’t the first time it’s happened.

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/07/2022 09:35

Ash2956 · 02/07/2022 00:33

Some of these responses make me worried about a lot of children out there. Children are a precious gift and should be cherished. If they have difficulty communicating then you need to be patient, take time and calm them, let them know they are safe and loved. Screaming at and leaving them to cry alone is not appropriate. If you are having trouble coping ask for help. Family, charity or Social Service, we all need help sometimes. Please get the help you need. 👍

@Ash2956

screaming/shouting at a child every so often isn’t abuse and isn’t going to traumatise them for life.

Plus I don’t believe that there is a parent out there that hasn’t done it, they’re lying if they say they haven’t

try extending your compassion to parents please, they are people with feelings too

MRex · 02/07/2022 09:44

Stop over-the-top thinking this, you aren't involved enough to judge. Contact social services and let them work out what help is needed.

Perplexed0522 · 02/07/2022 10:01

Plus I don’t believe that there is a parent out there that hasn’t done it, they’re lying if they say they haven’t

I can absolutely say I have never left my young distressed child in a room on their own screaming for two hours in the middle of the night.

I’m pretty sure most parents haven’t.

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/07/2022 10:36

Perplexed0522 · 02/07/2022 10:01

Plus I don’t believe that there is a parent out there that hasn’t done it, they’re lying if they say they haven’t

I can absolutely say I have never left my young distressed child in a room on their own screaming for two hours in the middle of the night.

I’m pretty sure most parents haven’t.

@Perplexed0522

maybe the mum had tried everything though?

Maybe her presence was making it worse?

Maybe he just needed to see out his tantrum?

That’s not abuse

what exactly was the mum supposed to have done?

and don’t say bring “him into her bed for cuddles” because that would be rewarding the tantrum behaviour and could be setting back months of work of getting him to sleep into his own bed. And contrary to some parents not everyone wants their kids sleeping in the same bed as them until they’re about four!

MRex · 02/07/2022 11:12

Plus I don’t believe that there is a parent out there that hasn’t done it, they’re lying if they say they haven’t
How ridiculous! We never left DS to scream and if I heard you leaving your child to scream for HOURS then I would call social services, because that's neglect. You have been teaching your child that nobody cares about their distress, that's vile.

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/07/2022 11:12

MRex · 02/07/2022 11:12

Plus I don’t believe that there is a parent out there that hasn’t done it, they’re lying if they say they haven’t
How ridiculous! We never left DS to scream and if I heard you leaving your child to scream for HOURS then I would call social services, because that's neglect. You have been teaching your child that nobody cares about their distress, that's vile.

@MRex

maybe the mum had tried everything though?

Maybe her presence was making it worse?

Maybe he just needed to see out his tantrum?

That’s not abuse

what exactly was the mum supposed to have done?

and don’t say bring “him into her bed for cuddles” because that would be rewarding the tantrum behaviour and could be setting back months of work of getting him to sleep into his own bed. And contrary to some parents not everyone wants their kids sleeping in the same bed as them until they’re about four!

MRex · 02/07/2022 11:21

what exactly was the mum supposed to have done?
Sort out the problem. Drugs and hugs if it's teething. Calm music, stories and songs if the child is fearful. Porridge, crumpet or toast if the child is hungry. Hand over to dad if mum is too tired to comfort. Lie down while they get off to sleep if they are lonely. A distressed child simply isn't getting better by banging off walls and screaming into an exhausted sleep, they are being psychologically damaged throughout the process and beyond.

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/07/2022 11:29

MRex · 02/07/2022 11:21

what exactly was the mum supposed to have done?
Sort out the problem. Drugs and hugs if it's teething. Calm music, stories and songs if the child is fearful. Porridge, crumpet or toast if the child is hungry. Hand over to dad if mum is too tired to comfort. Lie down while they get off to sleep if they are lonely. A distressed child simply isn't getting better by banging off walls and screaming into an exhausted sleep, they are being psychologically damaged throughout the process and beyond.

@MRex

what if they’d already tried all that?

Blackheath95 · 02/07/2022 12:23

MRex · 02/07/2022 11:21

what exactly was the mum supposed to have done?
Sort out the problem. Drugs and hugs if it's teething. Calm music, stories and songs if the child is fearful. Porridge, crumpet or toast if the child is hungry. Hand over to dad if mum is too tired to comfort. Lie down while they get off to sleep if they are lonely. A distressed child simply isn't getting better by banging off walls and screaming into an exhausted sleep, they are being psychologically damaged throughout the process and beyond.

Rod. Own. Back. There is supporting a child and then there is pandering.

TicTac80 · 02/07/2022 12:32

My DD used to have the most god awful tantrums at that age. It was a shock as my DS was the easiest baby/toddler/child on the planet. She was also a poor sleeper (from birth, due to really bad reflux. I had to keep her in an upright position). XH wasn’t any help as he’d had a big RTA (and quite significant injuries and MH issues as a result of that) just before she was born. Nightmare situation. She screamed all the time, despite meds, paediatrician input etc. We eventually got the reflux under control and then toddler age and tantrums started. She’s not SEN but would scream, throw things, bang things about whilst tantrums happened etc. It was hideous. I didn’t get a decent night’s sleep for a long time and I used to scream into a pillow at times. Or stand outside my car crying because she was having a screaming tantrum and refusing to get in her seat. Bath time was awful as she’d scream the place down. God know what our neighbours thought between the time she was newborn and about 3yrs old!!! I did explain it to neighbours, and they knew her/my DS well, but it was CRAP!!

amazingly, no one called the SS on us until she was a lot older! An anonymous report was done via NSPCC and it basically said that I was never there, but the kids were being screamed at by me…oh, and I was always drunk and on drugs. I was horrified by this, but happy that they were checking things out. Now, I’m a nurse, working full time on an acute ward (shifts are 7am to 8pm). Kids were at school/nursery (and had wraparound care). I’m also a non smoker, I don’t do drugs and I’m 99% teetotal (1 single measure unit of alcohol is my limit and I only have that at say, my birthday or Christmas - my body cannot process alcohol well, hence me being very careful on what alcohol I do drink). SS investigated (as they should!!). I gave them permission to speak to schools, nurseries, my family/friends (most of whom work in heath care, education and childcare - so all trained in safeguarding!), the children, my work and whoever else they wanted. I offered to undergo drug testing and told them that they were welcome to make any home visits they felt necessary, and at any time. I asked about any help/signposting for XH. They closed the case quickly and told me I had nothing to worry about. They saw the kids were heathy, happy, properly cared for and the nursery, wraparound care and school staff voiced no concerns to them.

OP, just report it. Let the SS decide what is what. I was mortified that someone reported us (and believe me, it was unfounded), but I’m still very glad that it happened and the SS visited. I’d rather they checked a 100 families like mine, than not bother at all, and potentially miss another Daniel Pelka or Peter Connolly.

if there’s nothing for SS to worry about, then great. If something bad is going on, then SS can act. If they see that the family is struggling, they can offer help.

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/07/2022 12:57

MRex · 02/07/2022 11:21

what exactly was the mum supposed to have done?
Sort out the problem. Drugs and hugs if it's teething. Calm music, stories and songs if the child is fearful. Porridge, crumpet or toast if the child is hungry. Hand over to dad if mum is too tired to comfort. Lie down while they get off to sleep if they are lonely. A distressed child simply isn't getting better by banging off walls and screaming into an exhausted sleep, they are being psychologically damaged throughout the process and beyond.

@MRex

lol

ain’t no way I’m getting up at 1am with my kid to make them porridge!

does anyone seriously do that?!

WhatNoRaisins · 02/07/2022 13:39

I've never left mine to scream at night but agree that making food and providing entertainment in the night isn't something I'd have been willing to do.

Franca123 · 02/07/2022 14:08

Crumpets, music and stories in the middle of the night? OK right...... and back in the real world. 😆