To be upset by what I heard from next door

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost22]

My Neighbours have 2 young kids- eldest is about 2 and a 6 month old baby. DP and i went to a gig last night & our kids went on sleepovers and we got back late.

Anyway, we got in at about 1am and all I could hear was the mum shouting at the hysterical screaming older child- it sounded like the 2 year old had woken up, woken them up and wouldn’t go back to sleep (I could hear this thru the walls as we are terraces). She was shouting at the child to go back to sleep, the child was hysterical & it went on and on and on - then it sounded like she left the child on their own and the child was possible throwing themselves about as there was repetitive banging because she had left them in their room. This went on for 2 hours & kept me awake- I must have fallen asleep at about 3am.

it was AWFUl to hear it though- the was she was shouting at the child, the hysteria of the child etc. It’s really upset me as the child sounded so distressed, particularly the repetitive banging.

it’s not the first time either. Aibu to feel upset- what do you do?

It's not the responsibility or purview of the general public untrained in safeguarding to either decide what is abuse, or to investigate it.

And how do you know? what clues would you be looking for? what proof would you need?

In fact, with my dc, I've noticed that they scream the most hysterically when they just angry/being defiant/know they have been naughty, compared to when they are genuinely upset/hurt/sick. So it's really hard to tell through a wall what's going on.

I’m shocked that the majority of people think you’re being unreasonable to be upset after hearing what is at best, a very distressed child, and at worst, abuse.

Definitely report it.

SS are busy. If this doesn't meet one of their thresholds then they won't become involved. They don't have enough spare time to faff around with cases they don't need to.

I'm VERY curious about PPs who think inviting her over is the solution. Please enlighten us! What are you going to do that makes an at best exhausted mother at the end of her tether in the middle of the night feel cool calm and able to get her toddler to sleep? A cup of tea? A glass of wine? A bottle of gin? Sharing your own parenting tips? What is it because I'm sure mothers across the world, plus professionals who work in the area would love to know.

How do you do the assessment to know if someone is in actual danger? Are you counting emotional harm into this? How would you know?

The reason people are saying to report to someone is not so the police can come knocking and she gets arrested and the child goes into care, it's so the appropriate people can be informed there may be a problem and they can actually assess.

The HV will be informed who will know if the mum has PND or similar. It may just highlight she's struggling and they can put support in place.

Ringing SS will either amount to zero happening or the parents getting a phone call and then realising theyre on someone’s radar. Not necessarily a bad thing however it’s not going to take a genius to work out who has alerted the authorities so be prepared for some blow back.

The behaviour of the child even it is banging themselves on walls can happen even when a child is perfectly well cared for ( like my son) but if the parent is regularly shouting like that then they are not coping and speaking to a HV about this is appropriate.

No one else can tell you what to do as no one else heard it or has a feeling of what things are like day to day. We all have different attitudes to parenting but most know what the range of normal is. What you should do could range from try and befriend her and offer support to call the police there and then if it happens again or make a referral to social care. I find it a bit odd though if you dont usually hear because you are asleep as if it was that extreme I would think it would wake you.

The thing is, all children get very distressed. They can scream hysterically over absolutely nothing. So that's nothing to judge on.

I haven't had this exact thing happen but I can understand why the neighbour acted as she did. If my child was being very naughty and defiant one night, screaming and throwing things and banging, and all attempts to calm them had failed - I would probably leave them in their room to calm down as well. I certainly wouldn't reward them by bringing a screaming, hitting child in to my bed for some lovely cuddles, or getting up with them and doing activities at 1am. Maybe that's not what OP would do but it isn't abuse.

for what its worth you do need to report it
you could have a word with the mum too

My DD has adhd and ASD and has massive meltdowns sometimes when she screams, stomps etc

I have shouted at her especially when it's late.

Be sure you know what's going on first.

You are completely wrong. It is not up to anyone, other than a trained Children’s Services Social Worker, to assess what’s going on here.

How would you feel if you saw police outside the house a few days later, then saw them carrying the body of the child out as the mum had actually been beating them?

Sorry for being graphic, but you're a pillock for thinking reporting is wrong. What op heard sounds awful and could very easily have been physical abuse, at minimum it's emotional abuse. This is why other kids end up in the news dead, no one does anything. And yet I bet then, you said 'why didn't anyone report it, why did no one do anything'.

We shouldn't still be of the mindset that child abuse is not our business. It very much is our business. If you really think that, you shouldn't be a parent.

They’d have quite the task if everyone who heard a hysterical child or a shouting parent reported it.

youre being ridiculous.

are you reading the same op I am?

you’ve gone from that to killing a child.

are you ok?

You want social services to assess every parent who has had a hysterical child or has shouted at them?

right o….

and you wonder why children are actually being put at serious harm when people are reporting stuff like this.

I'm a DSL for a primary school and have had extensive training.

Letting a 2 year old scream and cry and throw themselves around, while under forced isolation for hours, could easily be classed as abuse.

Ring SS then professionals will decide what to do and investigate accordingly.

Don’t report them OP- very few parents can claim to have never shouted in frustration in sheer exhaustion.

usual black and white Mumsnet rules.

You realise there is an ASSESSMENT team for this very reason?

To assess the information and decide whether it needs to be passed over to a social worker?

Thats what early help is for, social services work with other organisations

Report to SS. If anything happened I couldn't live with that
If it's otherwise fine, they can confirm.

But to all the posters saying mind your own business, you have no idea what you're talking about because you don't know or have facts, that's why it's important to report where there are genuine concerns. This isn't a one off isolated incident.

I'm not going to post specifics but many children grow up in situations that look normal on the outside yet when something bad happens you hear neighbours, relatives etc having to live with the knowledge they should have reported neglect and abuse.

It's really irresponsible to say mind your own business on threads like these.

Social services

Go round and see if she is ok? You might get a better sense of what is going on and then decide what to do. She might be really struggling and need a friend or equally she might tell you to F off. That will tell you how she feels about her situation.

We live next door to toddlers on both sides and they both have screaming fits at times. Sometimes mums shout. They are incredibly loved kids. We all laugh that at least we all know what it’s like and don’t call SS on each other when our kids are being kids.

I think you’re being a bit precious and very very likely to do a lot more harm than good.

If you really want to be helpful invite the mum for a cuppa.