To be upset by what I heard from next door

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost22]

My Neighbours have 2 young kids- eldest is about 2 and a 6 month old baby. DP and i went to a gig last night & our kids went on sleepovers and we got back late.

Anyway, we got in at about 1am and all I could hear was the mum shouting at the hysterical screaming older child- it sounded like the 2 year old had woken up, woken them up and wouldn’t go back to sleep (I could hear this thru the walls as we are terraces). She was shouting at the child to go back to sleep, the child was hysterical & it went on and on and on - then it sounded like she left the child on their own and the child was possible throwing themselves about as there was repetitive banging because she had left them in their room. This went on for 2 hours & kept me awake- I must have fallen asleep at about 3am.

it was AWFUl to hear it though- the was she was shouting at the child, the hysteria of the child etc. It’s really upset me as the child sounded so distressed, particularly the repetitive banging.

it’s not the first time either. Aibu to feel upset- what do you do?

Was it you that maybe woke the child up at 1am? You said the walls are thin, terraced

Call social services. Do t think twice about this.

DO IT TODAY.

I had god awful pnd with my first, I used to wail & cry throughout the nights sometimes. (The gp told me to do sit ups when I went in for help) My husband was there, I was feeding the baby and he'd pick up the care after that. The neighbour did ask if everything was OK once, my tears and yells were always directed towards myself but I was mortified at the time. I'd see if the mum is OK tbh.

Things like this do NOT meet the threshold for intervention by children’s services. I’ve seen kids with burn marks on them that haven’t met the threshold so I doubt whether this would even get past the person taking the call.

People are allowed to shout at their kids and leave babies/toddlers to cry it out. It’s awful, but it’s better than months or even years (going off what you read on here) of sleep deprivation. Who would want to live like that and how could it possibly be in any child’s best interests?

But you’re making assumptions as well now, assuming that OP is thinking worst case scenario with the banging. Has it occurred to you that the banging might have been something worse than the child throwing themselves around? Think Ellie Butler and a hundred other tragic cases.

So you have heard it before?

How many times do you need before you act?

@Staryflight445

"It’s a pretty normal thing for children to get shouted at, even whilst at school. It’s shitty but it certainly doesn’t mean a child is being abused."

You do realise screaming at a hysterical child is abusive right? Yes they don't get scars or bruising, but I have come across hundreds of traumatised teens and adults who were left terrified, lonely, insecure and feeling unsafe in their family homes. Precisely because their parents "weren't being abusive" by screaming at them when they were distressed.

Its called validation and nurturing. You sooth your children so that they eventually learn how to themselves. Invalidation is the number one red flag for a range of personality disorders (as in those that were invalidated), depression, anxiety and other MH conditions in adulthood.

Get a noise monitoring app that the local council recommend. You submit the noise recordings to the local environmental health. You should be able to put a note on stating that you have a child protection concern and you wish them to forward the findings anonymously. Alternatively phone local council with a child protection concern.

Are you absolutely certain that the banging was the child and not being done to the child?
When we see these awful things in the news when children are killed, we all say surely they neighbours heard things … the comments on here prove that yes they do hear but decide to ignore.

Very sad.

How do the children seem by day? And the parents? Do you ever chat to them? You’d pick up a lot more info that way than judging someone exhausted shouting at their kid because they won’t go the duck to sleep. And they probably don’t realise how thin the walls are!

I’m betting the 2 year old could have threadworms. My DC was almost flung out of the window at that age until they were old enough to describe their symptoms. A dose of Vermox and they slept like a log thereafter.

Not Reporting is the reason why there are so many dead kids

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61952430

Please please ignore the bone head plonkers who say ignore this.

I'm not proud of it but I occasionally shouted at my DC in the night. He woke up to 12 times a night and I got a maximum of 3-5 hours broken sleep a night for 3+ years. There's no support available for that, except perhaps anti depressants. My shouting was usually a last ditch attempt at trying to stop my child screaming so loudly as I was worried about the neighbours, ironically...

What Nannyogg just said!!!!!

I’m a secondary school teacher and we are told to report ANYTHING that worries us - from a bruise to a child falling asleep in lesson. Our safeguarding officer uses the analogy of a jigsaw puzzle. Yes, that one off incident may be just that- a one off incident (and most of the time this is the case) BUT it might be that the family are already known to SS / giving cause for concern and you are providing that ‘missing piece’ of the jigsaw that prompts them to act. When it comes to children, you should never ever hesitate to report it. Social services are used to dealing with reports all the time and you will need to trust them to take the appropriate action.

It doesn’t mean they aren’t being abused either. For every abused (and murdered) child their are red flags that are missed. Sometimes lots of little things that when put together become more meaningful. Report it, if it’s nothing …there’s not going to be an issue and if the parent/s need support this can be given by another appropriate‘early help’ agency.

I am surprised about this. If you are trained in safeguarding, then you should have been told to report anything you have concerns about and trust your ‘gut instinct’ —even if it seems minor at the time. We had a case at our school where what seemed like a minor comment / incident was the missing piece to a major safeguarding concern. Abused children and abusive parents are often very hard to spot.

Just want to weigh in that my two year old kicks the side of her cot when she wants me to go to her (not in distress) so that may explain the banging; as opposed to something more sinister. Still not great but, I’d go and ask her if she’s ok before you get her put in the system.

I agree, @AnotherDelphinium , I'd go round and speak to her, say you heard the crying in the night and ask whether you can give her a break.
She may have been exhausted and shouted at the toddler who then banged their toys around in frustration.

It wasn't the best reaction, but it doesn't automatically mean she's abusing or neglecting them. OTOH, she may need help or intervention, but speak to her first to get a better idea of what's going on.

It's true that refusal to sleep is massively exasperating and I could understand the mum losing her rag. For about five minutes, after which I'd expect there to be some kind of apology and reconciliation.

OP what you describe is too sustained and frequent ( as in, not one-off) to be OK. It's going to be tricky if she starts wondering who called SS, but I think you can't not do so.

As it's not the first time, I would definitely report it if it sounded abusive. I think we all have a duty to ensure children are safeguarded. Imagine if something happened and you could have prevented it. Better to be safe than sorry, there is no excuse for abusive behaviour towards children and it could escalate.

We have all been exhausted stressed out parents. Without seeing anything you can’t make a judgement as to what was exactly happening. No it’s not something I would do with a 2 year old in the night, however my 15 year old knows how to push my buttons. Only this morning I lost it with him. Noones perfect

The child can’t do anything about it

you can

Kids scream in the middle of the night sometimes and yes, parents shout out of exhaustion and frustration. It isn't ideal, but if it is consistent it might warrant investigation. The child might have additional needs you are not aware of which makes this situation more likely.

This last week I have seen an awful case of neglect on MN, which definitely should have been referred to SS, but I'm not sure this is something that would be top of their list (bearing in mind that my HV suggested controlled crying as a baby, which is apparently ok!) It is just going to make matters worse for the parent who sounds like they are probably exhausted. You are better off offering support and trying to understand their situation better and making a judgement then rather than listening through a wall.

What are you actually expecting to happen OP? I think it is likely to be a phone call, offer support and case closed based on what you have described, but then I know as much as you do, which is nothing really.