To be upset by what I heard from next door

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost22]

My Neighbours have 2 young kids- eldest is about 2 and a 6 month old baby. DP and i went to a gig last night & our kids went on sleepovers and we got back late.

Anyway, we got in at about 1am and all I could hear was the mum shouting at the hysterical screaming older child- it sounded like the 2 year old had woken up, woken them up and wouldn’t go back to sleep (I could hear this thru the walls as we are terraces). She was shouting at the child to go back to sleep, the child was hysterical & it went on and on and on - then it sounded like she left the child on their own and the child was possible throwing themselves about as there was repetitive banging because she had left them in their room. This went on for 2 hours & kept me awake- I must have fallen asleep at about 3am.

it was AWFUl to hear it though- the was she was shouting at the child, the hysteria of the child etc. It’s really upset me as the child sounded so distressed, particularly the repetitive banging.

it’s not the first time either. Aibu to feel upset- what do you do?

my tantrum prone daughter was once making so much noise (I had to let her scream it out, there was literally nothing else I could do) my neighbour came round to check ("I thought you might be dead!").

Once she screamed so much on the street that a passing police officer came to check everything was ok
She grew out of it in a couple of years.
SO screaming child, can be temperemant
Abusive screaming parents: report to SS.

This. I’m really shocked at so many advocates of reporting when there’s no evidence to suggest actual abuse.

It's 2022 and people are still saying not to report because there isn't evidence of abuse.

It is not up the lay person to go digging for evidence. It is up to everyone to report concerns and let the professionals do the assessment.

The importance of reporting concerns is not about getting children taken away or parents in trouble but to make sure everything's ok.

The child may come to nursery with an unexplained bruise. The neighbour may hear things they're not sure about. The GP may notice the mum's is detached from her children.

In isolation the above things may not mean anything but the more little bits that come together may paint a bigger picture.

Sorry, OP but this just reads like a massive humble brag about what a fabulous mother you are and how co-sleeping makes you superior.

I don't get that impression @Franca123. I think you are projecting there.

Why didn't you knock on the door or call the police last night if it was that loud and that upsetting?

I really don't understand thinking something is so awful but you wait all night and post on MN before doing something. If you're worried about a child, or any neighbour, do something there and then.

It's nothing to do with different parenting styles. There's a wide chasm between 'co-sleep'; 'don't co-sleep' ; 'practise controlled crying'; 'abuse DCs'.

I’m currently completing child safe guarding training. We all have a duty and are all responsible for safe guarding a child. You do not need know that abuse or neglect is happening to raise a concern to your local authorities as it is not your job to investigate or find evidence, that is the role of the local authority. You have heard something concerning. It may be nothing but it might be something and you don’t have the bare the burden of deciding that alone.

I urge you to contact someone who can take the lead. An exhausted mother who is well meaning can be struggling and unintentionally neglect or abuse their child. She also may need support.

I would contact SS.

I witnessed something once, although the child was older, and it made me feel so uncomfortable, borderline upset. I let it go though as “every parent has a bad day” but it constantly played on my mind.

A month or so later I witnessed similar behaviour, a little bit worse actually, and so I chose to report it.

I went to the school first and then social services.

What I had seen wasn’t enough to trigger action but it was obvious my concerns were part of a puzzle that was being put together. It wasn’t explicitly said but it came across quite clearly that I wasn’t the first person to have raised concerns about the child.

As I was told, it’s really important that people come forward because you never know if others have been concerned too and put in complaints and lots of “minor complaints” (in SS eyes) can be enough to paint a bigger picture.

The school made it very clear to me that although SS hadn’t taken action this time it was really important that if I witnessed that behaviour again then I must continue to keep reporting it.

Ffs a parent shouting at their child to go to bed then leaving them screaming in their room is not always abuse.
We are told to leave our child in a safe place when we are at the end of our tether then can't even win when we do that.

My DS throws awful screaming fits when over tired, he used to scream until red in the face during nappy changing for ages and ages you would have thought he was being murdered.
He also loves screaming and rolling around on the floor bashing against everything when he doesn't get his way on the worst days (2 years old).

He will occasionally do this when put to bed and the only way to calm him down is firmly tell him to go to sleep then he will scream for 5 minutes before calming down after being left. If I stay he would just get more wound up about going to sleep so yes sometimes it is worse than it sounds.

If the shouting is constant and really aggressive I don't think Yabu to worry but if it's a one off shouted go to sleep and the child is screaming I wouldn't always assume the worst as some kids are just like that and it can be hard to cope with at times.

I think this too. Are you friendly with your neighbours? Perhaps she is really struggling and would appreciate a friendly chat? Ask her over for some tea and sympathy.

You can say you heard she had a difficult night last night and just wanted to reach out, offer some empathy, and see how the conversation goes.

We've most of us had bad nights. I co-slept with my youngest for years because he hated being left and you know, some nights he'd still refuse to settle no matter what I offered him!

Parenting can be hard. Maybe assume the best before assuming the worst? Of course, maybe she'll react badly and lead you to conclude you do need to report the incident.

Good luck OP, I imagine it was very distressing to hear it all through the walls.

Just this morning I very calmly asked my 4 year old to stop jumping on the bed. She didn’t listen so I calmly told her to stop jumping on the bed in case it breaks.

She then proceeded to scream like a banshee for 20minutes, told me she doesn’t care, told me she doesn’t like me, told me she only loves daddy. I tried to reason with her, I tried to give her a cuddle to calm her down but she didn’t want to know.

She then continued this for the first 15minutes of our walk to nursery before she eventually .

Anyone listening would have thought I was murdering her, anyone watching would be wondering why I was ignoring her crying.

Just the other night my 2 year old was screaming for a cuddle at 2am, and I mean high pitched screaming the word cuddle, the neighbours would have heard. My husband even said to me why don’t you just give her a cuddle. I can assure you she was in my arms throughout.

The point I’m making is kids can be completely unreasonable and completely overreact over the littlest of things.

You do not know what was going on in that house, it probably sound worse in the quiet of the night than it actually was.

A tired mum shouting because she is exhausted is not going to cause emotional issues.

If it's just sleep-deprived parents shouting back and then leaving the child alone to stew then yes, that's a pretty thin excuse to get SS involved.

Doesn't mean it's not shit to hear it all, of course.

You’ve taken one line out of my post and rendered it completely out of context to what I said. It comes down to common sense. This is a neighbour concerned about something she heard through a party wall. How is it ‘digging for evidence’ to walk the short distance next door and offer support to a fellow neighbour who may be struggling to cope ? If there are any concerns after that, then report.

Whilst I know everyone can be cranky when they've been woken up by a little one in the middle of the night, this sounds like it's going (and has gone in the past) far beyond that, given the length it went in for and how distressed the child was. At best it sounds like she's not coping (and so she might benefit from some support from SS) but I would worry that the bangs weren't the child throwing herself around, but the child being physically punished.

I would urge you to contact the NSPCC helpline for guidance, just to see whether they can advise where this is worth reporting or not. You can call them at 0808 800 5000. They might say no (or yes), but at least then you'd know you'd tried to do something to help the child if they are in trouble either way. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

Many years back I had very similar situation with my neighbours with apparently someone being thrown repeatedly against the wall. I had no idea if this was the two adults fighting or one of the 3 kids being abused. I called both SS (next day) and the police (right there and then in the middle of the night). Police were crap—took 2 hrs to turn up and when they finally did, strolled up the road as if they had all the time in the world. SS were already involved with the family, it turned out, but they were emphatic that I was right to report and they encouraged me to do so again in future if needed. I would say always report if you fear for someone’s safety.

There was banging and crashin about. Someone was banging and crashing about. The child wasn't "stewing"

There are too many older children and teenagers with mental health problems. These problems are attributed to many causes. Parents very rarely take any responsibility in this, and most people in general are unable to reflect on their own behaviour, beliefs or in any way accept they have power to do otherwise, or have done otherwise. CAMHs are at breaking point, child neglect and abuse is rising with an increasing number of children being placed on child protection plans, and child in need. There are more children in care than placements with some hard to care for very mentally unwell children living in hotels with staff acting as little more than security. There are no beds in hospital and no crisis intervention even when children self harm or attempt suicide.

Can I ask, as someone who is emoyed picking up the pieces when parenting 'goes wrong' why is it ok to leave a two year old to 'stew' (thrash, bang, throw themselves against a wall). If this were your teenager or husband, arguably someone who should have greater emotional regulation what would you do?

Would you leave them to it out of disdain, or anger or a belief they can pull themselves together, because you are exhausted.

A TWO YEAR OLD is completely reliant upon its care givers to show them how to emotionally regulate, to help that happen the child needs validation, empathy, security, safety, and care, and if all else fails to be restrained from hurting themselves.

Things are going very badly wrong when a parent is no longer responsible for their child, and not responsible for themselves, and yet shouts 'its my right' to parent how I see fit because my rights Trump the rights of my child and my responsibility to my child.

Have you heard a kid kicking a cot... it sounds loud.

My 1 year old likes to slam her legs against the mattress (or changing mat when getting changed) and has since she was 6 months old, the bang it make is LOUD but shes doing it as some kind of self soothing and is absoloutly fine.

My 2 year old use to kick the end of his cot when he didnt want to nap (but god help us if we let him stay up, an over tired toddler is hell) until he fell asleep and it sounding like he was sledge hammering walls.

I have never had my kids have temper tantrums (my two year old wasnt mad when kicking the cot he just liked the noise) but I have read time and time again even in a tantrum a child wont deliberetly harm themselves. Screaming, running around, throwing things, stamping feet, kicking etc... aren't actual risks to themselves.

The advice is to leave children in a safe secure space when they are like this and if you feel you are losing your temper raising your voice to then step out and ignore it... it litrally stops parents snapping on their kids and has saved many lives since becoming the given advice.

Sounds like shes doing what your actually ADVISED to do so SS would be wasting time coming to tell her she already doing what they say to do.

why is it ok to leave a two year old to 'stew' (thrash, bang, throw themselves against a wall)?

Some children, teenagers and adults do this to self regulate. It is preferable to some of the alternatives like biting themselves. There should be professionals involved if this is a regular occurrence but when they are actually doing it unless they are doing something like headbutting a wall, it can be best practice for that person, to not physically intervene. Physical interventions like restraint can make matters worse. Obviously a child doing this still needs to be watched.

Just report them, how is watching and waiting going to help that poor child?

Yes they do. Is it inevitable, part of their personality, or something to do with lack of effective parenting in early childhood? what do you think? I know what I think! but I'm trained to work with kids and young people who have attachment disorder and early childhood trauma.

Thing is unless you or someone else is willing and able to go over and support them during the night when it all kicks off what else can anyone do? A cup of tea during the day won't make any difference.

Realistically parents in this sort of situation are going to lose their rag and shout sometimes. We aren't childcare robots, we're people.

I'm the parent of a profoundly autistic teenager who uses physical behaviour to self regulate and has done from an early age and does it everywhere. As I said banging and crashing about is preferable to some of the very distressing alternatives.

"I know what I think! but I'm trained to work with kids and young people who have attachment disorder and early childhood trauma."

But not with children with developmental disabilities where the sort of behaviours I am talking about is not uncommon.

You need to report these concerns to social services, though social services are likely to tell them you are the one that reported them, they don't always keep you anonymous even when you request they do. If you don't want the trouble of that then report via the NSPCC requesting they report to social services anonymously as they will keep yout identity from social services.

I wasn't talking about children with developmental disabilities at 12:23. No.

The increase in numbers of children in care, requiring CAMHs,, rise in numbers of children on child at risk/child in need plans can not be accounted for by saying more children now have developmental disabilities.

Although many children in care have developmental disorders.

There is research suggesting that teenagers who present with moderate or high functioning (what a term!) ASD and receive a later diagnosis may present with behaviour and presentation which overlaps with attachment disorder. I don't know enough about this, but its something I find interesting. I can think of more than one child who spent a long time is psych only for the psychiatrists to tentatively diagnose (or fail to) that the child had emergent emotionally unstable personality disorder, reactive attachment disorder and ASD. I do know though from reading the chronologies of these children that they are in care because of early childhood trauma. One child was bashed repeatedly against the floor on their head by their birth parent, as a baby. Removed by age three, but at age 17 the trauma still resulted in dysregulation, head banging, and no ability to respond to ordinary disappointments or challenges. Did they have ASD? I don't know. Was the head banging due to developmental disabilities or head trauma, or attachment disorder? was the prolific self harmIng due to an invalidating environment or ASD?

What I would like to think is that as adults who don't have all the answers ourselves as individuals, we can instead show caution, report concerns and realise that none of us have the statutory authority to investigate.

All safeguarding training states the same......report concerns. That is your only duty, but it is a duty.

Your parenting style is literally opposite to theirs, you co-sleep to avoid what the neighbor is going through. I’m sure every single parent in her position has lost their shit at stupid o’clock in the morning when tiredness and frustration takes over. I myself have lost my shit 😂 I’d keep your nose out.