To be upset by what I heard from next door

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost22]

My Neighbours have 2 young kids- eldest is about 2 and a 6 month old baby. DP and i went to a gig last night & our kids went on sleepovers and we got back late.

Anyway, we got in at about 1am and all I could hear was the mum shouting at the hysterical screaming older child- it sounded like the 2 year old had woken up, woken them up and wouldn’t go back to sleep (I could hear this thru the walls as we are terraces). She was shouting at the child to go back to sleep, the child was hysterical & it went on and on and on - then it sounded like she left the child on their own and the child was possible throwing themselves about as there was repetitive banging because she had left them in their room. This went on for 2 hours & kept me awake- I must have fallen asleep at about 3am.

it was AWFUl to hear it though- the was she was shouting at the child, the hysteria of the child etc. It’s really upset me as the child sounded so distressed, particularly the repetitive banging.

it’s not the first time either. Aibu to feel upset- what do you do?

YANBU to be upset at hearing a LO cry, YABU to think reporting to SS is the first step!

Go and knock on the door and ask if she’s ok and what you can do to help; a cup of tea and some adult company to just talk to, someone to take the kids out to the park or even just stick them in front of your tv for a couple of hours so she can get some sleep.

You can then use the basis of this chat to see where to go and if you can help. I can’t believe the number of posters who appear to have “forgotten” what it’s like with two young children 18 months apart who you’re responsible 24/7!

It was 1am and the child needed to go back to sleep (they were probably completely over tired). Co-sleeping with a small baby is really unsafe and I don't think it's ideal for older children either. You wouldn't want someone calling SS on you would you, for your less than ideal parenting choices?

These sorts of threads are starting to sound orwellian. I would not call social services for a mum shouting go to sleep, for a toddler being left in their bedroom during a tantrum or for what might be toddler kicking the wall/door. If I heard swearing, bullying, goading language from parent I would call, if I heard the parent shouting for the three hours I would call, if it sounded like parent had laid hands I would call.

I find it really creepy that people are reporting 'Go back to bed!' to SS. How is it useful to pretend good people never raise their voices?

And how do you judge the difference? Better safe than sorry.

You’d be reporting a stressed and exhausted parent of a baby and a toddler shouting at a child to go to bed and then leaving the child in their bedroom. All the noises resulted from the child bashing around, not them being hit for example. I am not exactly sure what the crime is here. I wouldn’t do it myself - I just put the kids in with us so there was no problem. But our culture expects parents to put kids in their own rooms and parents are made to feel like failures if their child doesn’t sleep through from babyhood.

Shouting at at a 2 year old?!

With the banging, my 3yr dd kicks her feet against the wall when she can't sleep (I don't have neighbours) and it makes an awful noise to anyone who doesn't know what she's doing

I'm actually surprised that a website of presumably parents doesn't know how bad a tantrum can sound from a young child though - my 4 year olds is always incredibly tired on Wednesdays and yesterday bedtime he was screaming like he was being murdered including kicking the floor repeatedly - because he wasn't allowed to watch TV. I'm sure from the outside of the house it must have absolutely awful but this is how young children express themselves when really tired, which presumably the child was as it was in the middle of the night.

Of course it's not ideal to be shouting but sleep deprivation is a huge emotional and mental pressure on someone. I would not be reporting to SS unless I knew more about the family. Honestly sometimes leaving them for a while is the best strategy if you are at the end of your tether? She's left her in her bedroom not locked her outside.

Report it and let professionals investigate this.

I am staggered by those who are saying this is normal behaviour and should not be reported...

Reporting it anyway does not mean this woman will be prosecuted if she has done nothing wrong. It simply means understanding that the welfare of children, who by definition can't protect themselves, has to be put first.

Verbal and emotional abuse is as damaging as physical abuse by the way.

Have we learned nothing after so many cases of children being harmed/killed while family members, social services, schools and other professionals failed to act/turned a blind eye because of indifference and because of the bizarre notion that a parent knows best and by definition always have their kid's best interest?

Take it from someone who grew up in an abusive household. I wish someone had cared enough about me and my welfare to bother to report what was going on.

Any concerns about a child, always report. Its not for you or people on MN to assess whether there's a problem, so pass it on to the people whose job it is. They will do what you're asking people on here to do, but using a framework of guidance and procedures, rather than the opinions of a group of lay people.

I've had the horror of being part of serious case reviews of murdered children. Following poor Victoria Climbie the mantra was very much report, report, report. So often the "one off" incidents weren't reported untill after. Everyone else assumed everyone else was reporting. As a result we were told to report everything like this. 99% of the time it would be ignored but if the health visitor had also reported concerns, and the kids nursery then it might trigger a visit from SS. As a standalone it would be recorded and not acted on. Neighbours often knew more than anyone but would assume that someone else was looking out for the child.
I have screamed at my child in the middle of the night when at the end of my tether. A visit from SS would have been mortifying but could have been a good thing. I ended up refering myself for parenting classes run by SS that really helped with my (I now know) child with ASD.

Right I do get reporting suspected abuse but surely there is a social norm which dictates what's in the boundaries of reasonable behaviour? OP has heard a child having a tantrum and a parent shouting go to sleep. I am overly cautious/anxious but saying that's akin to even suspected abuse seems very extreme.

It starts as abuse. They tend not to go straight to murder, they start with hitting, screaming at the kid etc. People see bruises, hear the screaming, and do what you do, ignore it. Then when the worst happens, they say 'why did no one say anything'.

How am I having to explain this to an adult? Have you never watched the news?

Maybe they just need help, maybe it's nothing but tired parents and tired kids, but you don't know what it is at all. It could be innocent, it might not be. Could you 100% guarantee it's nothing bad?

We have once heard the foster carers next door shouting and ranting at their fairly newly arrived foster child who had clearly wet herself. It was a 30 min tirade about how the child was dirty and awful and so on. My DH who heard it was really shaken by it. I didn't hear it and I was worried about reporting it as I didn't want to upset the neighbour or even get their right to foster taken away. But my DH rightly said that was wrong headed and clearly our duty was to that child regardless of how awkward we might feel. He was right.

We called NSPCC for advice. They said they would send an anonymous note of our report to SS.

I don't know what happened after that.

Oh ffs. A mum at the end of her tether due to sleep deprivation from have 2 very young poor sleeping children is not the poster child of a fucking infanticidle maniac.

Can we stop this?

The child was sobbing for 30 mins ... my DH said.

@underneaththeash who are you to judge whether that is unsafe. Even the lullaby trust - the SIDS charity acknowledges that cosleeping can be safely done, and you have no idea how OP has risk assessed her situation. Do you know better than a SIDS charity? MAybe you would not safely cosleep but don't assume that others would do as you would www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/co-sleeping/

This is entirely different and I would call SS in that case too.
A parent shouting “just go back to bed for the love of God!!!” type of thing isn’t the same as verbally abusing a vulnerable child by shaming them.

The reason people are saying to report to someone is not so the police can come knocking and she gets arrested and the child goes into care

that would not happen as a result of a mother shouting at her child to go to sleep

The OP heard something she’s very concerned about. You didn’t hear it, so how can you judge? If @Everythingnotsavedwillbelost22 is concerned, she should speak to a social worker. They are the experts.

I can’t 100% guarantee that the nice elderly couple who live next door to me aren’t serial killers who are regularly enticing in Amazon delivery drivers and burying them under the patio. Perhaps I should log it with 101 just in case?

Not the first time report to SS.

We all have a moral responsibility to protect the vulnerable. By ignoring your instincts, you could be leaving a baby, because at 2yrs old, he is little more than a baby, to a lifetime of abuse. Trust your intincts, make that call to SS and keep your eyes and ears alert to the neighbours.

I'd be far more concerned about parents co-sleeping with a baby than I would be about an exhausted mum losing her cool and shouting for a child to go to sleep.

Shouting for a child to go to sleep isn't going to kill them is if, co-sleeping however....

What would I do?And this is part of my job.
Keep a record with dates of any further incidents and then use NSPCC to refer anonymously if this is a regular occurrence. Make a note of how long each incident lasts and what you heard.Parent may need support and a referral can help with that.But a one off bad night I wouldn't consider it.