To think people these days are very entitled?

[Poptart4]

I keep reading about people demanding high wages for jobs that require little or no skills or education. AIBU to think if you want more money than improve your skill set to get a higher paying job?

I've worked my fair share of shop and bar jobs, so I'm not putting people down who do these jobs. But when I wanted more money I did night courses (along side my shop work and looking after my kids) and used those qualifications to get an admin job which then led to promotions until I eventually worked my way up to a decent salary. It took years.

Demanding higher wages for jobs that are low paid because literally anyone could do them is an insult to people who have spent years in college to get a degree or years learning a trade or years working their way up the ladder.

Electricians, plumbers, lawyers, accountants etc are paid more because they have a certain skill set. Not just anyone can re-wire your house or defend you in court.

I just feel like people dont want to spend years putting time and effort into improving themselves, and that's fine but to then demand loads of money when they can't be arsed to put the effort in it takes to get a high paying job is the hight of entitlement.

I don't agree OP. Some of those on the lowest wages are working long hours and doing pretty unpleasant work. OK they might not degrees and qualifications to do these jobs but these jobs are essential. Most people prefer not to do them. I think it's absolutely scandalous that people are working full time, sometimes working 2 jobs and still struggling to pay the bills and buy food. Many people have no hope of ever owning a house. When you hear of nurses having to use food banks you know that people aren't being paid a decent wage.

Have you heard about the cost of living crisis? People can't pay bills and put food on the table on minimum wage. Stop being a goady so and so.

When presented with a job you keep saying, oh, well, not that job.

So what jobs do you mean?

I keep reading about people demanding high wages for jobs that require little or no skills or education. AIBU to think if you want more money than improve your skill set to get a higher paying job

To an extent, but I think a lot of low paid jobs are actually quite high skill and/or responsible. They don't university degrees and years of study, but people need to be skilled and responsible and for the level of skill and responsibility required, they are underpaid. Example would include care work; and retail and library work where you may need to be a keyholder and handle money. It's important work and deserves more acknowledgement. In other countries such roles DO involve more study and training, its only in the UK where people think anyone can do it.

If you can’t afford to pay your staff a decent living wage then with respect, you can’t afford to run a business…

Or at least, very, very selective in the information being shared.

Im going to guess that the person watching your children is either a family member (living close by) or their other parent (dual income household). So there’s a barrier immediately if you’re someone without those things.

Im also going to assume that the funded course you attended was funded by the government and is no longer funded, because it’s very unlikely that it still is. So there’s another barrier.

Im also going to assume you’re not disabled (one) OR are disabled but at the time received some kind of benefit to help ease costs. Which is now (in 2022) almost impossible to access. So there’s another barrier.

Im also going to assume you had a fairly average level of literacy/numeracy that allowed you to complete the forms needed to sign up to the course AND complete it. Another barrier.

This is long now so I’ll stop, but sure - if you can do it, anyone can.

Oooh theres a statement by a poster here that makes my blood boil: "i wasnt happy on minimum wage so i worked my way up to a level i was happy with'....

Diddums, you poor thing.

I think carers (who do one of the hardest jobs in the world) have a pay scale (love those 2 words) which might see a 20p rise per hour after begging the boss. There is no working your way up from 8 pounds an hour to 16 pounds, or 20 pounds, or 30 pounds... The money isnt there.... Because the people at the top dodge taxes and take enormous bonuses.

I would LOVE to see records of who has all their wealth carefully squirrelled away in tax havens like Jersey or the Isle of Man... Almost certainly the same people who run the country and claim 'we cant afford' to pay people enough to stop their reluance on foodbanks despite them working full time.

"charlotte needs a pony" spins in my brain. Entitled evil.

Many jobs are undervalued in terms of the effort and commitment they require and are not adequately paid. And everyone is entitled to a wage that allows them to live comfortably, without fear of not being able to feed themselves, keep a roof over their head, or put fuel in the car.

Wanting a decent wage to make ends meet is not entitlement, OP. It's survival.

Just because a job isn’t ‘skilled’ doesn’t mean it isn’t bloody hard work and it doesn’t mean it isn’t important. Therefore a decent rate of pay is deserved for it.

Just because you were paid a shit wage for bar work or retail jobs doesn’t mean everyone has to be. Why should people be martyrs and not push for better pay and conditions? Good on them. It benefits workers across the board, not just the lowest paid.

I went to university, got a very good degree and now earn a decent salary. I’ve put a lot of effort into getting to the point I’m at now. But I don’t sit here resenting other people for wanting a better wage just because I studied more than they did, because I’m not a complete arsehole.

Oh, I forgot one! Diesel in my area is now around 197.5 ppl. It absolutely was not when you did your course. Another barrier.

I was made redundant from a job last year which I needed professional qualifications and ongoing CPD to do. I gained my qualifications a long time ago at night school and by taking a year out to study. Initially it was fairly well paid, but a decade of no pay rises meant it was no longer.

I am now doing an unskilled, stress-free job for which I need no qualifications and am earning more.

Is it entitled to want to earn enough to live on from your full time job?

That is about as far from entitled as I can imagine. It should be a basic human right.

Entitled is the people squeezing working families, cutting wages, staff, safety and increasing hours all so they can give a better pay out to share holders. That's entitled.

Which

jobs

do

you

mean?

You keep missing people asking this vital question.

😉

Just read today that 29% of all homes in cornwall are 2nd homes... Billions and billions of pounds of second homes, the majority bought recently with bonuses and downpayments by the rich.

But we cant 'afford' to pay carers or nurses more than 1% extra this year or whatever piddly amount it is.

Eton now is £40,000 per year per child. Boris has what, 7, 8, 9 kids? So how many millions has he paid in school fees?... On a Pm salary of 150k? (me thinks family money, old Stanley was a wise old bird)...

The gulf between rich and poor is awful, getting wider, and the wealthy just love blaming the poor for being poor.

Probation service officers earn £23k a year that includes court report writing, risk assessments, managing child protection and domestic abuse cases, managing sex offenders so the public and victims are not at risk, engaging with MAPPA, working with very difficult people who often aren't very pleasant to the person who can decide they go back to prison. They are experienced and well trained, do you think £23k is adequate? I have a friend who still works for the probation service who can't even receipt admin because they are better off at Lidl.
Prison officers are in a very similar boat and also have regular physical assaults and disgusting working conditions to contend with. If they all quit you'd be in trouble.

I had a blood test yesterday and just said to the nurse taking blood “How are you today?”, and she burst into tears. She was crying through worry and exhaustion, because she was working days in the phlebotomy clinic, and then some nights as a carer, providing end of life care for clients in their own homes. Despite doing both jobs she could barely make ends meet.

Is she entitled OP? What should she do to improve her situation?

There are loads of highly skilled jobs that barely pay enough to live but that we need to function as a society. I’d say there is a big divide starting because while the poor get poorer, the rich are getting richer.

Very snobbish and privileged. Not everyone has the capacity or the privilege to train. Everyone who works a job should be paid a decent amount to be able to afford living. Everyone should have a right to ask for increase in wages and if we don't pay people enough in these jobs no one would be left doing it.

But if everyone was capable of and did what you did, who will do all those low paid menial jobs?

So...... You aren't actually going to tell us which jobs you mean, are you? FWIW I'm in a very highly paid job, qualifications up to postgraduate level, and not only is this thread goady and pretentious, I can't think which jobs you might mean (and neither can you, it seems).
What about the people who struggle academically? Who can't, for whatever reason, achieve extra qualifications? There are plenty.

Are you talking about... Cleaners? The cleaners at my work start very early, often split shifts, have had more work added on since covid (extra sanitising, deep cleaning more often, etc.). They deserve to be paid more.

Nursery workers? Very demanding job, very important in aiding children's development and safeguarding them, and so much more... They deserve to be paid a lot more.

Refuse collectors? Very early starts, very physical job and often not very pleasant, I imagine. The lorry driver will also need class 2 entitlement. They deserve to be paid more too.

Waiting patiently to see who it is who should be struggling along on the bare minimum.

everyone should be able to feed and house their family on the wages from a normal working week.

I do not begrudge anyone for wanting an actual standard of living.

I do begrudge those massive hoarders of wealth who are syphoning money out of the economy and then trying to blame those in poverty for the issues.

As for OP - there really doesnt seem to be many of the mid range wage jobs out there. As the RMT are pointing out - fire and rehire in the guise of restructuring, with huge pay cuts and worse conditions, is rife and has been for a while - across the board. The other day I went through 32 pages of local vacancies, of which around 30 pages would be offering about 19-23K, even for jobs demanding lots of specialist skills and experience. There was very little to 'move up' to available at all.

Excellent point about prison service workers on 23k.

HMP Send up the road from me in surrey.
23k per year = c1400 pounds pcm take home after tax, ni, pension contribs.

1 bed flats and studios start for rent around here at 995pcm, before band e council tax (£165pcm), and the car required to get to the prison gates as there is no bus service anywhere near....

Doing those sums, that means 100% of a warders salary is spent on rent, ctax and travel to work, BEFORE bills, food, clothes.

Must be A LOT of warders living at home with their parents as, with a 3 % pay rise they are getting poorer as rents are going up 10% pa here easily, before bills, diesel etc.

Whole financial situation falling apart.

I think you are missing half the story.

For years people have been telling people of lower paid jobs 'get some real qualifications and then you can have more money'

Then the pandemic came and lots of them lost their jobs

Now cafes and shops and pubs haven't got the workers because lots of them fucked off and got some real qualifications and got more money.

And the ones who are left can demand more because its supply and demand, and currently demand outweighs supply.

If you want to live in a capitalist society which says you are 'worth' more because of certain skills, then when other skills became scarce and therefore 'worth' more, don't complain those people are entitled or demanding.

They are no more entitled or demanding than you expecting more money for the job you are in.