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Original poster

To have had enough of ‘be kind’

196 replies

Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 06:59

DC (9)is at a school with a ‘be kind’ mantra. In her head at least this has taken hold as ‘I must be kind to all people at all times irrespective of how horrible they are to me or how uncomfortable they make me feel’.
Standing up for herself no longer appears to be allowed because it may upset the person who has upset her or made her feel uncomfortable, and that would be unkind. Fast forward a few years and I’m genuinely concerned that she will find herself unable to set boundaries for fear of appearing unkind.
has anyone else experienced similar?

OP posts:
Original poster
Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 09:44

Thank you for all the responses. Makes me feel a whole lot better to know I’m not an outlier.
@whumpthereitis you’ve nailed it.
@Hallyup89 unfortunately that is exactly how my daughter sees it, and judging by many of the responses she is not alone.

DD is good a music, not exceptional by any means, but possibly the best in her year. She has had a number of snipey comments about her ability. One girl said she could play just as well as DD. DD said she knew said child didn’t play the instrument, and the other child complained because she had about 5 lessons 4 years ago and it was unkind that DD said she couldnt play. In music lessons DD said the quiz they were doing was easy and was accused of a)answering too many questions and b)being mean because other children couldn’t answer the questions and found it hard. I got the ‘she needs to be kind’ mantra from her teacher. Seems like she is allowed to be good at something but only the school can decide when her trumpet can be blown, (pardon the pun) and dd can’t celebrate her achievements because of the effect it has on others. I went to a highly competitive school. It was all about celebrating achievements not keeping quiet about them so that lesser achievers didn’t feel bad!
In a previous school another truly nasty child who had some additional needs that she had learned to manipulate to maximum effect, could decide if she didn’t want to go out at playtime and then one of the other girls had to stay in and miss their play time to keep the child, who’d been horrible to them 10 minutes previously, company. They girls couldn’t say no as that would be mean. Nor were they ever allowed to challenge any of the child’s behavior, because that would also be mean.
DD has been sent in to a room to calm down a child with a history of violence towards other children because he liked dd and she was a calming influence on him. All in the name of kindness.
I'm totally done with kindness.

OP posts:
Bednobsbroomsticks · 25/06/2022 09:45

Lmao well you're in the right place then

Elreychalino · 25/06/2022 09:46

What happens when the be assertive kids meet the take no shit kids though?

justfiveminutes · 25/06/2022 09:49

"DD is good a music, not exceptional by any means, but possibly the best in her year. She has had a number of snipey comments about her ability. One girl said she could play just as well as DD. DD said she knew said child didn’t play the instrument, and the other child complained because she had about 5 lessons 4 years ago and it was unkind that DD said she couldnt play."

Well she's got a point there. Unless DD lives in her house, she has no idea whether she can play or not. What's wrong with an indifferent 'Can you? Great. Good for you.'

Original poster
Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 09:50

@Elreychalino they battle it out? Either they will find some mutual ground or arrive at agree to disagree. The kid who has been taught to be kind at all costs will back down and lose out.

OP posts:
justfiveminutes · 25/06/2022 09:51

"In music lessons DD said the quiz they were doing was easy and was accused of a)answering too many questions and b)being mean because other children couldn’t answer the questions and found it hard. I got the ‘she needs to be kind’ mantra from her teacher."

Yes, also mean. Why broadcast that you're finding a test easy when others are struggling? I mean, what does that achieve? Keeping quietly confident isn't being a pushover. If the teachers are bothering to tell you this stuff, she's mean.

ldontWanna · 25/06/2022 09:51

Elreychalino · 25/06/2022 09:46

What happens when the be assertive kids meet the take no shit kids though?

The world implodes. Or more likely, as long as they're not dicks, they coexist peacefully. Either together, or by forming separate groups.

whumpthereitis · 25/06/2022 09:52

Elreychalino · 25/06/2022 09:46

What happens when the be assertive kids meet the take no shit kids though?

I’d say they’ll at least have an understanding of boundaries, their own and those of other people.

Of course, like with all types of kids there will undoubtedly be issues arising. In that event the responsible adults can step in and actually address that fact, as opposed to brushing off a kid having an issue with a Instagram hashtag.

WhoPutTheScrewInTheTuna · 25/06/2022 09:53

I agree OP. I live by the mantra of "be good", not "be kind".

Keep in mind that "be kind" was used to say it was wrong to bring criminal charges against a woman who hit her sleeping partner over the head with a lamp and then assaulted a police officer. Sure, it'd have been much "kinder" to say "there there, it's ok, no need to make you sad by protecting other people from you" - but it wouldn't have been fair or reasonable or safe or good.

We can always do the "good thing". Sometimes we can do it kindly and sometimes we can't. If we can do it kindly, we should do the good thing kindly. If we can't, then doing the good thing unkindly is better than not doing the good thing and being kind instead.

It's not "kind" to take away someone's driving licence when they've been drink driving. It's not "kind" to place children into foster care when their parents are a danger to them. It's not "kind" to tell someone their racist/fascist/sexist/etc beliefs are harmful. But they're the "good" option.

Original poster
Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 09:54

@justfiveminutes . Really good point. And I’ll make that suggestion to dd for next time….although I think the comment was made more in a ‘why should you get to play when I can play too’ type of way, when the other girls standard was not sufficient to perform. It seemed like an uncalled for comment on the ‘injustice’ of dd’s selection when the other child was never in the running. Equally why can’t the other child be called out for not celebrating dd’s selection?

OP posts:
Ohthatsexciting · 25/06/2022 09:56

is it more of a state school “trend”

mine go to very sporty and academic prep school and whilst being kind is obviously a focus, it is balanced with encouraging strong competition and resilience and confidence

justfiveminutes · 25/06/2022 09:57

"n a previous school another truly nasty child who had some additional needs that she had learned to manipulate to maximum effect, could decide if she didn’t want to go out at playtime and then one of the other girls had to stay in and miss their play time to keep the child, who’d been horrible to them 10 minutes previously, company. They girls couldn’t say no as that would be mean. Nor were they ever allowed to challenge any of the child’s behavior, because that would also be mean."

I'd complain about that one. Usually you ask for volunteers. It's not in anybody's interests to force two children who dislike each other to socialise.

Original poster
Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 09:58

mine go to very sporty and academic prep school
so do mine.

OP posts:
Original poster
Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 10:00

I'd complain about that one
nobody dared. The mother was the biggest manipulative bully I’ve ever met as an adult.

OP posts:
notgreatthanks · 25/06/2022 10:04

In theory if everyone is kind that's great but not in reality. All you can do is advise her to defend herself/not accept shitty behaviour and report any bullying etc. But don't make her feel bad if she can't. I was bullied and my parents blamed me for being too scared to defend myself. I was basically asking for it. Be there for her and advocate for her if she can't.

Ohthatsexciting · 25/06/2022 10:11

Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 09:58

mine go to very sporty and academic prep school
so do mine.

Well i am surprised then! Does it not actually encourage competition and celebrates the “winner”. as ours does?

darisdet · 25/06/2022 10:11

Elreychalino · 25/06/2022 09:46

What happens when the be assertive kids meet the take no shit kids though?

If they're the 'do no harm, but take no shit/be assertive' kids then there's no problem.

They're certainly better equipped to deal with challenging people and situations than the 'be kind' crowd.

darisdet · 25/06/2022 10:13

I'd have guessed state school, by virtue of numbers and the people I know who preach this mantra.

Ohthatsexciting · 25/06/2022 10:13

Trainfromredhill · 25/06/2022 09:44

Thank you for all the responses. Makes me feel a whole lot better to know I’m not an outlier.
@whumpthereitis you’ve nailed it.
@Hallyup89 unfortunately that is exactly how my daughter sees it, and judging by many of the responses she is not alone.

DD is good a music, not exceptional by any means, but possibly the best in her year. She has had a number of snipey comments about her ability. One girl said she could play just as well as DD. DD said she knew said child didn’t play the instrument, and the other child complained because she had about 5 lessons 4 years ago and it was unkind that DD said she couldnt play. In music lessons DD said the quiz they were doing was easy and was accused of a)answering too many questions and b)being mean because other children couldn’t answer the questions and found it hard. I got the ‘she needs to be kind’ mantra from her teacher. Seems like she is allowed to be good at something but only the school can decide when her trumpet can be blown, (pardon the pun) and dd can’t celebrate her achievements because of the effect it has on others. I went to a highly competitive school. It was all about celebrating achievements not keeping quiet about them so that lesser achievers didn’t feel bad!
In a previous school another truly nasty child who had some additional needs that she had learned to manipulate to maximum effect, could decide if she didn’t want to go out at playtime and then one of the other girls had to stay in and miss their play time to keep the child, who’d been horrible to them 10 minutes previously, company. They girls couldn’t say no as that would be mean. Nor were they ever allowed to challenge any of the child’s behavior, because that would also be mean.
DD has been sent in to a room to calm down a child with a history of violence towards other children because he liked dd and she was a calming influence on him. All in the name of kindness.
I'm totally done with kindness.

Not “kindness” OP

Shit school

ElephantsFart · 25/06/2022 10:13

Schools are out of order for parroting this lazy crap, which is what Be Kind is. They should instead teach assertiveness, which is an important skill that needs to be taught. It is not aggression, it is about standing up for your needs in a non violent way.

StressyYetMessy · 25/06/2022 10:15

I’ve encountered the be kind message recently- adult to adult, and I can only reiterate what others have said. It was used as a stick to beat people who said ‘no’ with. Not rudely, not with any mean language, not with raised voices, but just no, that is not ok, my physical reality is just as important as your feelings, if not more so. There are detrimental physical consequences (and in this case financial to the tune of £2k) and so no, I am not going to let you have your way.

I had a grown adult screaming, shouting and crying at me that I should ‘be kind!!! Why are you being so mean!!!?’ Because I wouldn’t bend to what she wanted (long complicated story and irrelevant to this discussion).

But my observation is it’s only ever used against women and girls, and often in a ‘put up, shut up and agree with me!’ Fashion.

justfiveminutes · 25/06/2022 10:35

"They should instead teach assertiveness, which is an important skill that needs to be taught"

I don't disagree but it's hard to do well in schools. Parents don't want other children to be 'assertive' with their child. Children saying 'you make me and my friends uncomfortable so we don't want to play with you' are not seen as assertive.

TheMoth · 25/06/2022 10:46

Kids are also worried about being labelled bullies. I'm a form tutor and it's a minefield.

I will tell them to stop telling tales, when it's an endless litany of:
She's got my pen
He's looking at me
She's wearing mascara
His phone just beeped
She's got bracelets on
He said my head is round

Cos that's just looking to stir up shit.

I have had girls ask me how to end a friendship, which is pretty massive in early high school, because they don't want to be seen as bullies. Tbh, I thought that was a pretty mature thing to ask and I basically told them that the kindest thing to do would be to treat it like a break up, so actually talk to the other girl and explain the situation; that sometimes friends do just grow apart. Better that, than start to exclude or be mean.

ZenNudist · 25/06/2022 10:47

Be kind is a meaningless slogan.

stayathomer · 25/06/2022 12:13

Children saying 'you make me and my friends uncomfortable so we don't want to play with you' are not seen as assertive.
Personally I wouldn’t see that as assertive, I’d just see that as mean, has ‘things you think but do not say’ gone altogether? Even ‘sorry we’re just going to play by ourselves’ is nicer than that