To have had enough of ‘be kind’

[Trainfromredhill]

DC (9)is at a school with a ‘be kind’ mantra. In her head at least this has taken hold as ‘I must be kind to all people at all times irrespective of how horrible they are to me or how uncomfortable they make me feel’.
Standing up for herself no longer appears to be allowed because it may upset the person who has upset her or made her feel uncomfortable, and that would be unkind. Fast forward a few years and I’m genuinely concerned that she will find herself unable to set boundaries for fear of appearing unkind.
has anyone else experienced similar?

To a young person who is naive, be kind could mean, do please please, that man or woman.

Agree. Was discussing this with family recently. Pretty much all of the worst circumstances my sisters and I ever found ourselves in were because we were too concerned about asserting ourselves and making a fuss or making someone else uncomfortable (and we're not a particularly shy bunch). My brother and brother in law's worst moments were all because of peer pressure or something that seemed fun at the time.

I don't think 'be kind' means accept bad behaviour directed at you or others, it means have empathy for those around you and understand they have many things going on their lives.

I have two DDs. I have never told them to allow poor behaviour or bullying dressing their response as 'be kind'. I have told them it's ok not to like everyone but other people don't need to know you don't like them and say no or stop when others are doing things you don't like. Then remove yourself from the situation and get help if you need.

Girls do need to be assertive and they need to be taught this. Being assertive does not make them socially inept. It ensures they don't put up and shut up which is important for females in society at the moment.

The alternative is be neutral.

Don't go out of your way to please someone or put up with their shit, especially when they're not being nice themselves.

Don't go out of your way to be mean or rude to someone .

Talk with the school. There is room to be kind and to not take shit, they are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes the kindest thing is to tell someone no. So the school messaging needs to be clearer so your poor confused child (and no doubt many others) isn’t confusing kindness with being pushed around.

I was reading about the sexual assault on a 17 year old and at the point she could have got help, because other people were about, her own words were "I didn't want to make a fuss, or be impolite by telling him to just go away". It was a much older man, who first approached her pretending to want to help/be protective etc.

"I don't think 'be kind' means accept bad behaviour directed at you or others, it means have empathy for those around you and understand they have many things going on their lives."
And that's been leaped on by certain groups. Most teenage girls need empathy and have issues they are struggling with. We need to stop telling women to give and give and give. Unless you can walk into Tesco/Asda/Primark and see as many boys clothes as girls with be kind etc on, then we need to drop it. Boys need it much more than girls.

I am similar nature to yourself, but have produced children who are very confident and outgoing. No idea how it happened as DH similar to myself in nature.

I was also taught to be kind and was just too kind in school to my own detriment.

Not sure what the answer is OP.

I've had this with dd. There's a kid in school who can be violent, threatens to call the police on them and says some pretty horrible stuff. He has additional needs, so I started out by telling dd to be kind/ make allowances etc.

But then I thought, what am I doing? I'm telling her that as long as There's a reason, she should just accept being uncomfortable and unhappy, to accommodate someone else. And what kind of message is that? She's 9. It's not up to her to accommodate another kid's needs. That's for his parents and teachers to sort. I've told her as long as she's not actively unkind, she doesn't have to play with him if she doesn't want.

Mulling this over a bit more...

My DH is one of the 'kindest' people I've ever me, it's a word people often use to describe him. He volunteers for a homeless shelter and currently doing humanitarian aid for Ukraine, he helps out at the kids clubs and will always help a friend or neighbour if they need a hand with something.

On the other hand he is a trade union activist (works for a TU) and spends his working life fighting for peoples rights and standing up for himself and others. He is very much not a pushover.

So I think those of you who are talking about nuance are right. To me kindness is helping someone who needs it, and especially if they can't ask for it. But kindness is not letting other people have power over you and not going along with the status quo out of fear of not being seen as 'nice'. This is what we need to teach our children.

Please explain in what way your dd is not allowed to stand up for herself.

Of course schools encourage kindness.

That doesn't mean saying 'yes' to things you're uncomfortable with, putting up with bullying or unkind behaviour, or being ingratiating while someone hits you or calls you names.

In what circumstances has she been asked to be kind?

Absolutely agree with this

So often I talk to parents when their child has been horrible to someone and parents don't want to believe it. Often, they defend their child by saying they are just 'setting boundaries' or 'standing up for themselves' when it's nothing of the sort. That's why I'm keen to know the circumstances in which your child has been told to be kind.

Kind hearted people still say NO.

Teach your children to value and respect themselves, hold firm boundaries and respect other people's right to do the same.

Teach them how to recognise when others threaten their boundaries or are not treating them with respect, and how to respond in those situations - it is a life skill to be strong and assertive. Anyone who tells them otherwise is already undermining those boundaries.

Women should not be taught or socialised into thinking they must make way for men, and men should not be taught or socialised into expecting that they will.

Well said

I saw baby onesies in Tesco with Be Kind on them. In the girls' section, naturally 😵‍💫

No thanks.

I couldn’t have put it better myself.

It's always be kind, isn't it? Never be reasonable or be truthful or anything that demands that you exercise a little agency or critical thinking.

I hate it too, recently was told I was not being kind when I refused to buy my dgod daughter an expensive item she wanted.
She's 11..
She was very sulky and said school teaches them the be kind at all times motto... I 😂

DC's primary school went on a massive "be kind" kick a couple of years ago.

I raised my concerns with the head (that the be kind message at best doesn't teach health boundaries and at worst is actually a safeguarding risk) and she immediately saw the problem and that was the end of #bekind. She is an extremely good headteacher.

So it might be worth raising.

Very one dimensional

so however you feel about kind it’s not enough on its own

stand up for yourself
try hard
have fun
believe in yourself

Kindness directives can be actually harmful.

My Dd was bullied and coerced by another girl throughout y3 and y4. Isolated from other friends and emotionally manipulated. School dealt with this through (repeated) kindness assemblies and kindness circles.

My dd spent long and pointless hours trying to appease this girl, to include her alongside other friends, to reassure her and to do as she wanted. To Be Kind.

The bully did nothing. She didn't see herself as unkind. She saw my dd as unkind for not embracing an exclusive friendship and cutting herself off from all competing friendships.

My dd ended up with a bloody breakdown, self harming at ten years old. The bully was just given the lead in the school play. That was kind?

I've always told my dd that if someone is being unkind to her she should say "you're not being very kind right now so I'm going to play somewhere else" and then just walk away. I've told her that she doesn't have to be rude about it but she doesn't have to put up with people being rude to her either, just walk away. So far this has worked well but she is only in year 2 so I know she will need more/different strategies as she gets older.

We recently had a chat about how that if people are being rude or mean to you and don't stand up for yourself and walk away then they will think that you don't mind and will just keep being mean to you. Obviously I didn't want to just say "some people are just plain horrible and they will walk all over you if you let them" to a six year old but it is a fact of life and I want her to know that.

I think its really hard to explain the line between being unkind and setting boundaries to a child. Children see things in such a black and white way. I have always been the type of person to stick up for myself and not let people walk all over me. Some of the stories my friends tell me or that I see on here shock me as I just can't imagine not shutting that crap down long before it got the ridiculously CF stage. But both my dc's (one girl and one boy) are the complete opposite to me in that regard and I know that I will have to put a lot of work in to teaching them how to set boundaries and assert themselves.

I don't know about OP's DD but I'll give some examples from my experience.

Child told off for tale telling, because it isn't "nice". Incident including another girl following them to the toilet, calling her names , trying to look under the door,climb the wall to look over and kicking the door while she was using the toilet.

Told that she should tell the teachers and give them a chance to sort it , instead of telling mum. It's not nice or fair to keep quiet because then they can't deal with it.

Told off for excluding said girl and not wanting to play with her ,that it's not nice AFTER being kicked and her hair pulled by same girl.

Told that x has a,b,c issues and she needs to be kind and understand that. Massively unprofessional and a breach of privacy for that other girl.

Most schools and staff are great, work incredibly hard ,do their best and most ant their best for their kids. Some suck or try to take the easy way out. It happens.

Be aware might be more helpful.