To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

Me too! Thats what the post was intended to convey, im not judging I'm actually worried for women who put themselves in such a risky situation. In the UK in this day and age, no matter your situation, there's absolutely no need for it!

Thank you. 😊

My main question to everyone saying; "I'm finanically dependant on my husband and its fine" is...

What would you say to your daughters? If you asked them "what do you want to be when you grow up?" and their response was "nothing, I plan to rely entirely on my husband"

Would you really sit there and say "that's fine, I did it and I can't see how that could possibly ever go wrong"

Or would you maybe say "well that works for some people, but it's always best to have a career or a back up plan to fall back on"

Because yeah, you might have the loveliest husband in the world, might have been married 40 years and everything has been bliss, but unfortunately thats not always how it turns out,

And teaching women and girls that it's okay to live in a fairytale world where no one cheats or dies seems like really irresponsible parenting to me.

This is such a depressing thread.

In the first thread, op days she’s not slagging of sahm, but that’s exactly what she’s doing. She’s not accepting that husbands and wives can work as a team, and decide that dh earns the money, whilst dw looks after the kids. They are co-depending on each other.

@EllieRosesMammy Exactly. I know there's posters with their individual situations but I just couldn't do it.

Having said that I'm perhaps a bit more on the extreme side of things because I realised that if I was going to carry and birth a child then subsequently become the 'default' parent I was never going 50/50 with my husband. Pregnancy/birth is literally trauma for a woman's body and then signing up to carry the mental load of the family because 'it's just what you do as a mum and wife'. Absolutely the fuck not.

So many women get shafted and have little to no reprieve because when the shit hits the fan they still have to find a way to now co-parent or be a single mother following divorce. Even CMS is a joke. I know I'm just not built to be able to withstand that so I have taken every measure to ensure I don't ever find myself in that position.

...until he decides he doesn't need her. Which happens over and over again. Then what?

OP, people generally only post on AIBU or the relationships boards when there is a problem. Usually with the DH or MIL. This is true whether these MN users have jobs or not.

Financial abuse is financial abuse. It happens at all income levels. I would argue that any husband./ father who talks about "his" money or is secretive about finances, is financially abusive. Regardless of whether the wife works it not. I would not live in that type of relationship.

If you were to get to know some of the many families I know where the wife has been a SAHM for a long time, you would get a very different impression, I'm sure. You would see that they are not financially vulnerable. You would see that they are not naive and stupid. And you would see that their husbands respect them and the whole ethos of the family is that it doesn't matter who earns the money, but rather how you invest it long term to work for you into the future.

Perhaps you need to focus you worry on lobbying the government to increase carers allowance as many trapped women are trapped by having children with severe disabilities, improving the availability, cost and quality of childcare (particularly for those with needs), improving cms, and tackling affordable housing / rent controls. This would have more impact than focusing on individual women.

That’s very naive….women are the ones that get pregnant last time I looked. That does not mean they passively “carry” a baby for 9 months then have a 12 month holiday which they can opt to return form early to ensure their career is not impacted.
pregnancy is an active process of mother “growing” a baby using her own bodily resources. If she’s breastfeeding she is using her own bodily resource to then grow that 7lb odd baby’s to around 30 lbs. Many women bounce back form that well. Quite a lot don’t and need maternity leave to fully recover form things like birth injuries, PND , etc.
whether you see it or not, women in the workplace are penalised as soon as they take maternity leave if not before. The statistics are shocking for the number of women who are effectively dismissed while pregnant despite it being against the law. The gender pay gap starts at womens child bearing ages. And it continues for many many years f it ever recovers.
even in companies that keep an active watch on gender paygaps, sexual discrimination etc , unconscious bias exists. Many people still have lingering doubts that a “mother” who is leaving work at 5pm on the dot to collect kids is really that committed to her career, whereas a man who does the same is seen as an excellent example of a “family man” and all round good egg.

i have a degree in chemistry, worked as a scientist, was seen as a “highly successful” employee according to my performance reviews, until I got pregnant. My career stagnated till the kids were old enough not to effect my work at all and I could cease having to do all things parents do such as leaving early sometimes, days off at short notice etc. By then I had slipped behind younger, less experienced (and in some cases less able) men. Whilst I did catch up a lot, I have never reached parity in wage even with those blokes significantly younger than me on same pay scale.

You are naïve to think that the motherhood penalty does not exist.

They are co-depending on each other.

They really aren't. Because whilst his wife is at home raising the kids he has ample time and opportunity to progress his career and finances. If he one day decides his secretary is the love of his life the marriage is over. He'll maybe happily take the kids 2 weekends a month but the ex-wife still does the bulk of child-rearing and having spent multiple years out of the workforce doesn't have much to fall back on. The ex wife will need to find a job that accommodates school hours and likely won't be well paid. Nothing really changes for the ex husband - he could in theory get a younger model and have more kids; still has his high-flying career.

Most people think 'this will never happen to me' but as we've seen countless times it can and it does.

I reserve my most concern for women who do this that aren’t actually married to their partner.
at least if you’re married you have financial and legal rights to any and all assets held in the marriage if you do have to split.
I think women who say they’re not marrying cos they want to be independent are delusional. Yep, crack on and a good thing whilst you don’t have children- all for that. But dear god, don’t get pregnant or if you do get married long before the baby is delivered. Women need this financial and legal protection. That’s what marriage is for. Not a big flashy day that costs £20k, that you “can’t afford yet”. You can’t afford to not get married once you have children,
i just don’t get it.

I'd rather see divorce settlements take that into account rather than suggest that no one should ever be a SAHP.

And teaching women and girls that it's okay to live in a fairytale world where no one cheats or dies seems like really irresponsible parenting to me.
Come on. You're clutching at straws now and a downright insult to women who have chose to stay at home to parent their own children.

There's no way my children were sent to a nursery or a childminder to have another woman look after them for me. We had the financial stability for me to be at home and that's what I chose. I've experienced everything with them and barely missed a minute which I'm incredibly grateful for.
The societal pressure for woman to do it all comes from other women who feel it's their place to judge.
You can't do it all. You can't be all in for your children at home while you're out working. You can't be all in for your career while you're parenting round the clock. You can have a bit of both if that's what you want.
You're talking about quite a narrow demographic who could provide the same standard of life as a single parent. Some mums have to work to make ends meet but still wouldn't have financial stability if their relationship ended. Not to mention illness, job losses etc. It's all relative to people's circumstances. These threads are narrow minded.

Good for you you've got the balance right for your family. Stop tarring everyone with the same brush and assuming it'll all be disasterous for sahm. You're not going to get threads on here about how wonderful it is because when it's wonderful, we don't need advice. Stop blaming women for the mans selfish actions.

And/or better state provision of childcare, support etc for single parents. Even something radical like a universal basic income.

I think we need more community, more unity, more partnership, rather than this mindset of trust no one, keep working full pelt even if you, your kids and your marriage are suffering.

@TruthHertz

trim, well groomed ladies turn up in their Range Rover Sports and know they probs haven't done a day's work in quite a few years.

Fuck me.

If this is what we're raising girls to aspire to then no wonder society is fucked.

@Foxgluv

Is ot OK for men to allow another woman to raise their kids and not be 'all in' for their kids?

I suppose it comes down to your definition of 'parenting well'. As a SAHP, when mine were young I seem to recall it was me helping out many a working mum who couldn't make it to the school gate in time, acting in loco parentis at sports day, through the school holidays, when their child was sick....all so they could have the career and 'parent well'

Yes times have changed and quality child care is more readily available but how exactly would you be fixed if god forbid your child is off school through long term illness or for some other reason? Not all employers are able to be totally flexible with their staff. I've heard so many mothers absolutely torn between being there for their children and keeping their job.

Your comment: "no wonder we end up with grown adults who's parents are constantly in their business and would have a heart attack if their kids moved more than 5 minutes down the road from them." - really is that your best argument? How pathetic. Many a working parent would give their right arm to have extended family nearby to support them to do 'parenting well' due to the pressure of society and posts like this to have it all and then come on M's net and look down and scoff at others who have chosen an alternative life.

"reserve my most concern for women who do this that aren’t actually married to their partner.
at least if you’re married you have financial and legal rights to any and all assets held in the marriage if you do have to split"

Marriage doesn't guarantee you'll be left with much and won't have to start again from scratch. If you were only comfortably well off or poor, or don't own your own home, for example.

I think they're a dying breed the sahms, and soon it will only be the wealthy who can afford it. I predict when the final move from tax credit to universal credit in 2024 comes that many current SAHM will be forced to seek work.

I never understood the sahm, where there are no additional needs and the children are at nursery or school anyway. It's rather old fashioned and backward.

"My main question to everyone saying; "I'm finanically dependant on my husband and its fine" is...

What would you say to your daughters?"

Well what do think?

One if my main focuses in being a SAHM has been educational involvement and support. In fact , it's a major reason why I've been a SAHM - my husband's income / investments pay the school fees su I let him get on with that and I am best placed to supervise the homework / other activities etc day to day. This is how we do it. My daughter is about to start at Cambridge this year. She knows full well she can do whatever she wants to do career-wise and we will support her 100%. I just want her to have choices, but I'm not going to dictate what those choices will be. Maybe she'll use childcare when she has children. Fine. Maybe she'll work flexibly around them. Fine. Maybe she will want to be a SAHM for a period and her husband supports this. Fine. Maybe she won't want children. Fine. Her life is her life and her instincts once children come along are her business. She has the intelligence and wherewithal to know what she wants and what's right for her. Far be it from me to prescribe what she 'should want' as a woman. As long as she's happy, so am I. I can't ask for more than that,

@Riverlee The thing is I don't think that in the dynamic you describe that couple truly are codependent. There is a power inbalance. Because if either one them ever want to leave the relationship for whatever reason, money quickly becomes an overriding priority. You can't live (feed clothe yourself let alone your kids) without an income, you can live without a relationship/time with your kids...(and many people do forgoe a relationship with their children as seen over and over in relationship breakdowns). It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you need a roof over your head and food before anything else. So whoever holds the earning potential has that in the bag. You can of course legally pursue a partner for cost for children (and assets for yourself if you've been married) but this doesn't mean you'll actually get any payments... Relationship breakdown is incredibly common, it's hugely naive or wishful thinking to hope it never happens to you (or god forbid, sickness or death of the income earner). It's a very all your eggs in one basket strategy that can work for some people .... But leave man many more completely fucked....I wouldn't fancy the odds myself

If you really want to be financially independent for the vast majority that would involve not having children but most don’t want to do that

@Marmitemother

None of those poor kids had working dads for you to judge huh?

Bearing in mind i do work, i dont understand why people find it hard to see why sahm of school age children exist. Not everywhere has wrap around care and not every child gets on with it. There arent that many jobs that are after school drop off and before school pick up and are term time only that give someone financial independence. I knew more women that became sahm once their children started school than nursery age. I even know some that hit the teenage years and had to take sabbaticals from work or leave because their children had mental health issues.

@Topgub do you mean nursery staff/childminder? Men and women can do whatever works best for their own family.

well groomed ladies turn up in their Range Rover Sports and know they probs haven't done a day's work in quite a few years
What level of grooming/what car should be driven to meet your assumption of doing a day's work?

I had a great career. I spent 5 years at uni working for it. I was heavily invested in my job. I worked long hours, helped a lot of people. I never thought I'd leave, but I also never thought I'd have children. I haven't done that type of 'day's work' in a few years.

The judgement on here is ridiculous.

I totally agree with the pp who said that anyone who thinks discrimination doesn't exist in the workplace the moment a woman has a child is very naive. Therefore, carrying on with a chosen career can be very challenging. I moved to a family friendly organisation and am doing something entirely different, rather than carry on with mine where I was judged openly, by men, older women, and younger women, for doing unreasonable things like leaving on time!

I would add to this that when my DH applied to take half of my maternity leave, he was promptly offered voluntary redundancy. This had been brewing in the form of suddenly mediocre performace reviews (despite always good ones pre-kids) since he went to four days a week, to help look after our first child.