To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

@Sam0207 how are transwomen women?

conflictedunicorn whoever says at the time "you have a lovely baby boy/girl". This decision is based in science which is why I said the sex and gender were two different things.

And trans men are very rarely mentioned in trans threads on here.

Being anti trans and believing that trans- women are not women is not the same thing. I don't believe that dogs are women either but I'm certainly not anti dogs. Suggest you read some more threads on this OP if you want to understand some of the sentiment on this topic on this forum.

I think you will find the opposite

Most wish that no one would think that male /female implies anything beyond baby making functionality / trans identifying is saying there is more to male female than that / ergo pink and blue brains ergo right wing Christian American belief is more alaigned with TWAW then those who think gender is a harmful and illogical concept

Trans women are transwomen. Natal born women are women. No qualification - no choice. We don't get to opt out of periods, out of the risk of pregnancy, out of the personal consequences of pregnancy. . . of being made to adhere to rules of modesty by religion, by men, by trauma.

We have very different life journies and experiences.

I get that trans gender women and men have their own terrible trials and issues. But that does not negate ours.

I think transmen aren't mentioned so much because they aren't the ones trying to take over women's spaces (because they already belong there, being biologically female).

@Witchcraftandhokum how would believing transmen are women affect women’s rights. Would you put a transman in a male prison? Do you believe trasnmen should have access to women’s health screenings? Or do you think they should be left to not be screened for breast cancer, smear tests or ovarian cancer? If a transman is raped, should they be told they cannot access a female rape crisis centre?

Sorry, I would like to edit my wording. I don't 'believe' that trans women are not women, I 'know' it to be a fact, in the same way I know that dogs are also not women.

If a trans woman was a woman surely she'd just be "woman"?

If biological males are calling themselves trans then surely they themselves must recognise their biological make up?

I don't believe that trans women are women, no, but I don't feel hatred towards trans people at all. It can't be an easy position to be in. I have concerns about safe spaces and protecting the rights that have been so hard fought for. I think probably a lot of women agree but it isn't talked about. I'd never ever utter this view at work, for instance. Not only because it would inevitably hurt someone somehow but because it would be counter-cultural.

Exactly. Transwomen are transwomen. Women are women. Both different. It’s funny not one of the TWAW crowd on here are willing to give us a definition of woman.

Nope - not playing, not biting.

Do your own research, form your own opinion.
The OP asked if there was anyone here who believed that Transwomen are Women and - as an ally - I raised my hand.

Drugs and surgery do not change fundamental biology. Sex is immutable and therefore transwomen are transwomen. But your OP is very loaded and not innocent.

I support the rights of people identifying as trans to live and present how they wish to as long as that doesn't impinge on the rights of others, in this case women. There are entirely valid reasons why some things in life are divided down the lines of sex and not gender and identifying as trans shouldn't override that.

If you honestly believe TWAW and TMAM, what are NBs and what is the difference between men and women that is more than an idea in someone's head?

Trans women are women - the two are not mutually exclusive

yes they are. Women have XX chromosomes. Trans women are trans women and there is nothing wrong with that.

Do you believe transwomen are female?

I have a woman is an adult human female. A transwoman is male so not a woman. Easy. Now, we’ve sorted that.

There’s that word again...believe...so it’s not a fact then that transwomen are women?

I believe that trans people should be able to live life as their ‘authentic selves’, free from fear and discrimination.

If that means them identifying as a man or woman publicly and using their preferred pronouns, then I have no issues with that in the slightest.

Unfortunately, though, no one can biologically change their sex, and as such there are so many complications to the self identification rules. This does occasionally (but not always) undermine the rights of biological women.

For example:

• Being referred to as womb carriers, pregnant people, or people with cervixes, rather than women.


• The whole debacle with sports categories.


• Lesbians being told they are transphobic for not wanting to be intimate with trans women with male genitalia.


• Female changing rooms, shelters and prisons being open to abuse (of course this is a minority but sadly does happen).

So while I support trans rights, I also support women’s rights

I think it’s an incredibly complex issue and we have some way to go before everyone is being treated fairly. But fairness to trans people should not be at the expense of fairness to women.

The thread starter is clearly a drive by shooter gathering ammunition for yet another twitter pile on.

Or irredeemably stupid.

This with bells on

It is not a fact. Notice not one of them actually believes it, they’re just messing. If I was a Christian and insisted everyone had to agree with me God actually created the world in 7 days and if you didn’t agree you were a bigot, they’d all be piling on me telling me people could believe what they chose, so why is gender (whatever gender is) so special?

conflictrdunicorn I said NOT believing transmen are men would affect womens rights. Because if you believe they are women you are denying their rights to identify as male.

I haven't said a word about trans mens health rights but yes I believe they should be screened for all.of those things should they want it, why wouldn't I?

I am physically, emotionally, genetically a woman. If I said I was a transwoman that would be a lie.
I have no experience of what it is like to feel like a woman with a man's body, or the courage it must take to go down the long road to full transition, so I do not pretend otherwise.
I respectfully request and require the same courtesy in the other direction. A transwoman doesn't know what it is like to be a natural woman, nor will she ever experience many of the things I have, which have shaped the course of my life and should not pretend other wise or try to force others to pretend.
I reject the lie that transwoman are women. It's not a belief. It's a lie.

murasaki there's not a lot of fuel here for Twitter. The OP has set up a silly AIBU, is being calmly refuted, won't answer any questions and will no doubt flounce in the next hour or so.

Yawn.