To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

I'll tell you what as well, OP. I bet not one of these transphobes has a trans person in their family.

They all talk from a position of extreme ignorance.

Presumably you only think you can support trans rights if you agree, against the evidence of your own eyes, they are what they say they are.

How do you think this is helpful. Surely it's better to acknowledge truth. Transwomen are transwomen which means they are male. They could not be transwomen if they were female, therefore transwomen are not women.

None of that means I want trans people to be discriminated against. It just means I don't think we should tell "compassionate lies" when talking about fairness, equality, safeguarding and changing laws.

You can bet that but you’d be wrong.

You just lost your bet

Soz not soz

Haha! That is where you are wrong!

And they also agree with JKR. They are a trans man though.

You've been following Mumsnet for "so long" and not had any issue but on the basis of a Google search you have come to the conclusion that it's a stronghold of transphobic hate but you needed to post an incredibly unfair and leading question to settle the matter?

Thats nice dear. Off you go and polish your halo.

Have a look at the thread about the removal of a major woman’s right in America today.

Trans ideology is sexist in the extreme, demanding that ‘women’ are defined by very traditional performance of narrow feminity. The two movements are very closely linked, and are both run by males seeking to remove autonomy from females.

Why is it always transwomen? Why did @StolenCookie not ask if we believed transmen were men? Not saying the OP is misogynistic or has an agenda, but why dies she not care about transmen? If transwomen would be in danger in a male prison, surely transmen would be in even more danger?

I always thought Mumsnet was quite harmless and fun
Blooming women, talking about serious topics and womens rights, on a site called Mumsnet
They should stick to prams, baby names and baking recipes, amirite?

😂👏

Cant to point me to any scientific papers where a mamal has changed sex?
When you can, i will belueve that transwomen are women.

In the meantime, I will regard them as men presenting themselves as women through dress and surgery.

Well @stolen sis spend a long time last night telling people their language was not ladylike so yeah, think @StolenCookie thinks we should only be able to talk about fluffy girly things, not makes flashing their knobs at unwilling women under the guise of trans rights

I feel a bit icky

What are you? 5?

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

Really? I think it's been well known for some time that MN is a place where civil debate is allowed. That makes some people very upset because they would prefer mummies stick to mummy topics but it's hardly a secret that gender critical women are "allowed" to talk freely here.

I believe that sex and gender are two different things.

I believe that people can feel like they are a different sex than what they were assigned at birth.

I believe that people should have the rights in line with the gender they identify with and support them in their quest for this.

HOWEVER when it comes to problematic things like refuges, womens prisons and sport there should be a third space.

I think mumsnet is incredibly anti-trans and also fails to recognise the existence of trans men.

The main thing I want to know is if anyone here believes, like me, that trans women are women. That’s all.

What chromosomes do you think trans women have?

I'd take that bet.

It may also surprise you to know many trans woman absolutely respect a biological woman's right not to want biological males in their single sex spaces.

Some males also feel the same about trans males.

Just because we hear the extreme voices and those who shout the loudest doesn't mean they represent everyone who is transgender.

Trans women are men.

People who pretend otherwise are either liars or fools. End of story.

Of course, people can live in whatever lifestyle they choose - and should be free to do so without harrasment or abuse etc.

But this does not extend to compelling others to join in with the lie, or threatening female only spaces such as toilets or changing facilities.

There is actually no such thing as "trans people" - it is a complete fiction - there are only men or women who incorrectly claim to be the opposite sex (for whatever reason, be it mental illness or a dishonest agenda).

Personally I think it is a real disgrace that so much time is wasted by politicians, police and the NHS etc on this complete rubbish.

How are they women?
Genetically? Physiologically?

Or are they just wearing a dress?

No, they are men. They have an X and Y chromosone, they have an inherent advantage in sport because of their increased testosterone which means they should never be allowed to enter women's sport. Those who still have their penis should never be put in a women's prison, especially when they have form for raping and assaulting women. The same applies in women's safe spaces. They are for women which these men are not.

Witchcraftandhokum The OP hasn't mentioned trans men in her OP. I wonder if she is quite so vehement that trans men are men? I do notice that much of the oxygen in this debate is over the rights of trans women, and that trans men are often overlooked. It's puzzling. I wonder why?

@Witchcraftandhokum who assigns the sexes at birth? Are radiologists lying when they tell parents the sex if the children in scans? What is gender! Can you tell us how, without using sexist stereotypes. A male could know he is a woman? Transmen have been mentioned 3 times in this thread, not once by the OP. It’s her who has the problem with forgetting transmen, not us.

I'm not daring to read right through the thread because I know it'll make me want to punch someone - and the only person at home with me is my very lovely and very male trans son.

Trans women are women - the two are not mutually exclusive. My bet is most of the anti trans posters would be happy in America/Gilead

kiplingsroad because it's a dichotomy. Those that believe that trans women are men would need to believe that trans men are women thus affecting women's rights.