To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

Your two voting options are not mutually exclusive and are therefore pointless.

Thats not a very good vote. I'd like to vote for both options please

What is a woman?

YABU.

It's not anti-trans imo, it's pro women. Which trans people are not, they're not women.

It's quite possible to support trans rights while not believing trans women are women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I shall lay out the welcome mat for you in the naughty corner .

What makes them women?

You’re vote is very unfair

I am not transphobic. I just know (not think) that trans women aren’t women.

<yawn>

Trans women aren't women. But I support trans people

No, I don’t think ‘trans women’ are women because they are not, and never will be.

Yeah, that’s a bollocks vote, maybe put your brain back into gear and re-post if you want to continue stirring shit?

Believing biology matters doesn’t mean you don’t support trans rights. Of course everyone should be free to live free from discrimination but it doesn’t change reality.

By what definition are trans women women? They’re men who don’t want to be men so have some notion of what being a woman involves (normally sexist stereotypes) so dress up as one (and occasionally have their penis removed.

how can anyone with a straight face say they are women?

Trans rights to what? For men to declare themselves women and make everyone else act like they believe it? That's not a right, that's thought control.

Typical TRA manipulation.

Dreadful voting options and just shows how little the 'trans women are women' crowd understand the debate.

Yes, this.

Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

You’ve set up a false dichotomy there.

I do not believe unreservedly that trans women are women. However, I support trans rights - I am just concerned with the overlap with women’s rights and how that is managed in law. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘trans rights’ as you haven’t defined it. I support the rights of trans people to live as they choose to represent and not be discriminated against for that. I do not support self-ID in law, however.

^ This

Your voting options show your bias and agenda. Bet you're hoping for a handy screenshot too.

Women are women
transwomen by definition are not

Being pro trans rights, and also believing transwomen are not women/ transmen are not men, isn't a thing. They're mutually exclusive.

In the words of the trans community, educate yourself.

Come for screen shots have you?