To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

Another vote for both - it’s a legal fiction that transwomen are women and a matter of common courtesy to treat them as such in contexts where biological sex doesn’t matter. But of course I don’t believe unreservedly that TWAW.

Neither does most of the UK population. This is not an extreme position. www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/britons-and-gender-identity/

The main thing I want to know is if anyone here believes, like me, that trans women are women. That’s all.

I've got one for you OP.

YANBU: rapists with penises should be able to self identify as female and be housed in female prisons including showers and cells.

YABU: you support women's rights.

Sigh. I really wasn’t trying to be inflammatory.

😂😂😂

But @StolenCookie how do we know of transwomen are women if no one can tell us what a woman is? Why don’t you define woman, and we’ll tell you if we agree transwomen are women or not according to that definition. Remember the definition can’t include the word it’s defining

How can you be a woman if you still have a prostrate inside of you ? Or a man if you still have a womb inside of you ? Some common sense is needed here

But they aren't.

You can believe a trans woman is a woman but that won't change them from being biologically male.

The same way trans woman have every right to believe they are woman and identify as such (but remember they are identifying into something that has no actual definition as gender is a social construct.)

What trans woman don't have the right to do is invade spaces for biological woman and compete in sports for biological woman.

Biology and ideology are opposites and cannot be mixed up.

You can (and should) accept trans people but that absolutely shouldn't be at the detriment to the rights of other groups - for trans woman it's the rights of woman.

Well why are you here then? If you believe this site is so toxic, why are you contributing to it?

It's not a matter of "belief". Transwomen are by definition men.

I support trans rights. I also support sex based rights.

There are many social situations where I think trans women are women, but other situations where I think women refers to the sex class, not the gender class and so does not include trans women.

Repost your thread.

“Do you believe, like I do, that trans women are women? I believe this unreservedly - do you? I’m curious if there’s a silent majority on MN who might think like I do because it always seems posters say the opposite.

YANBU = trans women are women

YABU = I don’t agree with the statement above.”

This. And also not at the expense of women.

They are not women.

🤣✌️

Off you pop then

So you admit that your belief that transwomen are women and not women is just that...a belief? You admit that it’s not fact?

Flouncers corner is over that way.

What exactly do you mean by "trans rights"? What rights do trans people want that they do not have? The right to get married to a partner of either sex? Sorted. The right not to be abused or attacked? Sorted. The right to get on with their lives quietly, like everyone else? Again, sorted. The right to dismantle other peoples hard-won rights, just to make themselves feel better? Sorry, not a chance.

Your user name is very apt.

2+2=5, right?

@StolenCookie @Mostess
Can you define woman? Presumably you aren't going with 'adult human female'.

I feel a bit icky that I’ve been lurking here so long without realising that Mumsnet seems to be a stronghold for some incredibly hateful views!

Why did you need Google to tell you what to think? Stick around, debate a bit, find out what people think and why, listen to their reasons and arguments. Then make up your own mind.

That was meant to be so you admit that your belief that transwomen are women is a belief and not a fact.

Stolen** I think the way you came into the other thread and then started this one I'd question who here has the agenda?

It's not transphobic or any of the others things you've accused Mners of being to state a biological fact that trans woman are biologically male and have penis'.

Fwiw I also hate the whole "cervix or uterus = woman" crap. I'm having a hysterectomy next week and won't leave the theatre a man. I'm a woman die to my chromosomes and who's biological make up and puberty I went through.

Trans woman should absolutely live their life without fear and persecution.

So should biological woman.

Biological woman should not have to loose their rights for biological males who state they identify as woman (remembering it's a feeling and there is no definition of gender).

This is why it's great that sporting bodies are now coming out and offering open categories for those who identify from a differing sex at birth. The same way disabled athletes get to compete against people who are a similar make up genetically/ physically etc.

Sigh. A man can never become a woman, he is a trans woman which means he is not a woman, nor will ever be a woman whatever he does.
HTH.

Women are adults with XX chromosomes.
Trans-women are adults with XY chromosomes who choose to present in some degree of stereotypically "feminine" ways.

They can't be the same thing. They have different biology. Their formative experiences will be different too.

A trans-woman can't have a cervical smear. Hormones and surgery can manipulate biology, but they can't override it.

Curiously I've never heard arguments trying to convince us that trans-men are men.

Wear what you like, call yourself what you like, make informed choices to manipulate your adult body, that's fine. However there is a place for single sex spaces, and trans identities should not override safeguarding.