To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

The more you say "transwomen are women" the more you repeat that there is something different about them so they need their own word to describe their emotional identity (crisis). They are trans. The need that little bit added to the start of the word woman to even begin to make sense of who they are and what they go through. So they are not simply women at all. A transwoman goes through stuff I can't even imagine. She should be woman enough to acknowledge that I, as simply a woman, go through stuff she can't imagine either. Unless she's still just a man who thinks if she shouts and bullies me enough then the little woman will just pipe down, of course.

Women have a vagina and a womb. End of. Feck off if you haven't got one.

'Also - depressing fact.

Over 700 (!!) votes and over 80% saying trans women are not women.

Mumsnet really is as anti-trans as I worried it was.'

Do you never wonder if the 80% of people may just have a point? You call MN anti-trans, but does it never cross your mind that the majority of the population actually agree with the vote, that humans can't change sex, are not 'born in the wrong body', that male bodied humans do not belong in certain 'spaces', that women have a right to request and require that their privacy is respected?

Do you ever stop to think about why we are setting children on a medicalised path that will probably do them physical harm, stop them having a fulfilling sex life in adulthood, telling them that the body they were born with is wrong?

I'm sure many other women in my position have thought long and hard about this issue. I don't like being the bad guy. I want to be nice and inclusive. I, as a woman, am socialised that way anyway.

But, after doing the reading, listening to the TRAs, seen the mansplaining, heard the arguments, sorry, NO. Transwomen are not women. There is no transgendered brain. There is something going on when most transmen/boys are young females, many diagnosed with ASD and most transwomen appear to be older men.

I'm no right wing bigot. I was and am incredibly angry at the repeal of Rowe v Wade. I am a feminist to the tips of my toenails. I want everyone to live their best life. But not at the expense of others. I am weary of this debate, the mantras, the pseudo science.

I no longer feel compelled to be kind, because the kindness only flows one way in this debate. As for being on the 'wrong side of history' - let's wait and see.

You're forgetting bigot bingo #5

Anyone with a different view to TWAW no matter how eloquently and rationally explained is a transphobic terf! Do keep up at thr back!

Trans women are not women and trans men are not men IMO. We are living through crazy times and it's dangerous. It's a mental health disorder that doesn't need encouraging.

Soz

How on earth do people think Rachel Dolezal is a fair comparison to being trans? The woman was a con artist who lied about her heritage and race, getting deeper and deeper into the lie as her career progressed.

Race and gender are not the same thing.

I’ve also read posts saying it’s like wanting to be a child - well no it isn’t as everyone was a child once.

and I think the lowest point was comparing it to being an opera singer or a cat.

Yet you are all claiming you aren’t transphobic and don’t have an issue with TW (unless one goes to prison or plays sport). Yeah right!

OP, are you seriously saying that someone who is a biological male with male genitalia is a woman?!

I am baffled.

They may feel like a woman (whatever that is supposed to mean) and want to present as a woman but they are still male. They are not female.

As many other posters have asked, which you continue to ignore……

If I say I identify as being blind does that mean I am?

If I say I identify with being French does that mean I am?

If I say I identify with being a rabbit, does that mean I am one?

If I say I identify as a pilot does that mean I am one and so am allowed to fly a plane?

Just because you say you identify with something has no actual bearing on the reality.

And the reality is that although Trans Women say they identify with being female, or with being a woman, that doesn’t mean they are one because they are male.

The term Transwoman is used to identify that as a group of people they are an individualised subsection of society…..just as women are, just as men are, just as gay people are, just as lesbians are etc…..

If Transwomen really were women then they wouldn’t need the ‘Trans’ part of the description would they? They would just be called women.

But they aren’t labelled as women because they aren’t one.

They are males who want to present as a woman.

It was Cath57 who brought up opera singers actually - one of yours.

FunLovinGal, do you have an opinion on Jessica. Simpson Yaniv if we're talking about con artists?

What does this "wrong side of history" threat mean, anyway? It's trotted out with regularity so I assume it means dire consequences.

Will I be tutted at whenever I show my face in public? Will I be branded with some sort of symbol on my forehead, marking me out as a heretic? Put in the stocks and pelted with rotten tomatoes? Forced to watch Drag Race in perpetuity?

I'd like to plan ahead, so a little heads up would be appreciated. Fanks.

What about the TW who accept they're not women? Where do they fit in? Are they dressing up as women but missing the magic gender essence in their brain?

ODFOD to the max.

No idea who that is, so no. But no doubt it’s another case of picking one person who did something wrong and applying it to all TW. But you’re not prejudiced are you?

How on earth do people think Rachel Dolezal is a fair comparison to being trans?

Because both identify with what they are not. HTH.

I believe they are called truscum in the community

Oh I'm aware of that. Just wondered if FunLovinGal accepts their identities as valid.

I’ve tried to answer as many questions as I can in the other thread. so is this a TAAT? I have not seen that other thread and I'm sure many others haven't. Therefore you should not quote it or refer to it in this thread. It's confusing

No, there are people,grown ups that identify as 6 year old girls. Not just women ,but young girls. They feel like a child,they need to be a child, they have needs that involve playing,and cuddles and bedtime stories. OP said all it takes is a feeling. So are those people children then? Should they have children rights?

OP has already admitted she's transphobic anyway. She only believes TWAW sometimes. When it comes to prisons and sport, they're not.

No, it's just that you brought up the issue of con artists and I wondered what you thought about someone I'd deem a con artist claiming to be a trans woman.

Bigot bingo #6.

No one can be compared to trans. No one is as opressed or marginalised. Other comparators are not valid especially when it comes to identity trumping reality. Oppression Olympics gold winners for the 4th year running.

Of course I accept their identities as valid. But it’s not up to me to tell someone else who they are.

My job is to not be a twat by telling someone they aren’t a woman or a man when that is how they identify.

So are they men or women

Given that they're transwomen who accept they are male

No. Trans women are not women, they are men, who want to be women. They were born as male, but later in life decided they want to be women. I will support that side - but they are not and will never be, women. They were born male. That’s why they are called ‘trans women’ and not woman. They are categorically NOT women.