To not forgive this (chicken pox related)

[JustLyra]

My youngest DD is CEV. She has numerous health problems and we’ve had to be very careful her whole life.

That has meant, especially since covid, finding a balance between protecting her, but making sure her siblings don’t live too limited a life. It’s not an easy balance and not one we always get 100% right.

Our policy with other people has always been - please give us a heads up if we’re due to spend time with you and we’ll risk assess it. We never expect other people to cancel their attendance at parties etc, if we don’t feel it’s safe enough for her then we miss out. All we ask is that we’re given the info.

People around us are generally really good. It’s been a bit problematic since the mindset of covid being over has come in, but generally we’ve muddled through ok.

Earlier in the summer one of my other kids, who is 8, was invited to a sleepover for a birthday - just her and the birthday kid. The parent of the birthday kid knows us very well and said there was no coughs, colds or anything in their home the afternoon I dropped DD3 off. Everything seemed fine and dandy.

A few days after the party I got a message saying that the birthday child had chicken pox. Sure as fate DD3 had caught them. DD4 then caught them and it was a horrid time as she ended up spending 6 days in hospital seriously ill.

To me it was one of those things and couldn’t be helped.

Except now it turns out that the birthday child was known to have CP before the party. The birthday mum told another mum because she felt guilty and that mum told her to tell us or she would.

Birthday child felt well with the CP and apparently “really really really wanted DD4 as their sleepover guest” so the parents decided to just not say anything because it “could” have happened that they didn’t know so we had decided to take that risk.

They’ve been apologetic, as in the Dad apologised very briefly, but they seem fixed on “but, if we hadn’t known them you wouldn’t have known” and that, to them, seems to make it ok. Whereas to me it really doesn’t make it ok.

I don’t want anything to do with them again. I don’t trust them and I’m furious that they’d take that risk with someone else’s child, especially in our situation.

and they don’t seem to grasp that even before I had my youngest I’d have been pissed off if someone deliberately hid that because who exposes another child to CP deliberately without their parents ok? What if the Mum was pregnant?

My AIBU is this - the kids met at an activity. During the holidays when it’s off we usually try and organise a few play dates so they don’t lose touch. It’s always them/their DD that asks. Mine is happy to meet up, but has never asked. This summer I’m thinking just not agreeing to any of the meet ups.

If my DD asks id need to re-assess, but I don’t think she will. Id rather just let the friendship fizzle to a weekly thing at their activity as that way it limits contact with the parents.

Thinking about it there is a legal precedent with HIV not being disclosed before unprotected intercourse.

Someone should count and tag all the posters that asked why the kids aren’t vaccinated.

It’s odd to be on a forum where the point is to engage with others if you are going out of your way to not engage by ignoring all of the posts including the OP’s.

Ugh YANBU

as you say if it was one of those couldn’t be helped things that that’s one thing but not to deliberately spread it. Similar to Covid - I feel guilty I might have spread it before I got symptoms but I couldn’t have dreamed of going out with it once I knew I had it

Not to derail the thread (any more than it has already been periodically derailed - and yes, I have read most of the full thread and all of the OP’s posts):

What your child’s friends’ parents did was thoroughly reprehensible. They knew the CEV issue, they knew their child had an extremely infectious disease, and they deliberately chose to conceal that fact. Unforgivable.

Those who are saying, Well, the risk in the community is there anyway, she might have got it anyway, did you read @justLyra‘s devastating reply (summarised, not quoted because the thread is so long):

Yes, we know we are going to lose her, and probably before adulthood, but we are trying to do our best to put off that day.

As far as I can make out, that’s her whole focus as a mother - along with trying to juggle the almost impossible set of balls in the air to try to make sure her other kids have as much a normal life as possible. She knows that one day the juggling act is going to fail catastrophically, but please, not today. Not now. Keep juggling.

But I would just like to stand up brieflŷ, if not derailingly, for @Weepah ’s post. Yes, the CP vax is only about 90% effective in preventing infection (btw that’s about the same as mumps vax which is available on the NHS).

So, yes, kids who have been vaxed might get it anyway - but that’s the reason why EVERYONE should be vaxed. If they were, then the virus circulation would be tremendously lower, few people would get it, because almost no one would ever be exposed (because only about 10% of kids exposed would even get it). I am hoping that this makes sense.

So even if a vaccine that is only 90% effective at preventing illness, if more than 90% of people get it, then the chance of this spreading is really very small. That is why there are almost no outbreaks anymore in the US and other countries that routinely vaccinate children.

In the OP’s situation, only a fraction of children are vaccinated, so the chance of exposure is high. Her other children, even vaccinated have a high risk of bringing it home to their unvaccinated children, because if they are exposed heavily enough, or often enough, they are going to get it (since the vaccine is only 90% effective...)

But 90% is high! And would be just fine, community wide, if everyone were vaccinated. I think the NHS reasons for not vaccinating children are poor, and it will happen eventually. The NHS also lagged far behind on giving the rubella stand alone vaccine to all children and in the MMR.

Of course this does not mitigate against the original point! The OP’s “friends” deliberately exposed her daughter to a known serious risk. That’s inexcusable.

But if all children in the community were routinely vaccinated against chicken pox, that would have helped to eliminate at least one risk (and saved the OP’s child 6 days in hospital).

There are a zillion other risks, of course, and the point of the post still remains. Just standing up for the point that universal vaccination would have helped.

Just to add that I think @Nanny0gg also got that point and I am sorry if I missed others.

The point is important: if a vaccine is available, and your kids do not have medical contra indications, get them vaccinated. And lobby the NHS to add vaccines proven to be safe (like chicken pox) to be universally available.

Vaccines save lives.

(Temporary end of sermon.)

@AncrenneWisse I agree absolutely re CP vaccine. I paid for DS to get his done privately as a toddler after speaking to my GP about it. My GP was very open about the fact that cost is a significant reason why all children don't get offered it as the NHS prioritises other things. I did a lot of research about the CP vaccine before going ahead looking at what other countries do and outcomes etc and I was shocked that we leave children to just get this in the UK. (

Honestly it's like this on Facebook
I've posted on a group before saying
"Got this lovely top, from Next, true to size and they had it in 3 colours! Only £15"

First comments
Where from hun?
Now much was it?
Did they have any other colours?
What's the sizing like?

Sorry to get this thread going again but genuinely after some advice from @JustLyra or any other CEV people that have posted

After reading this thread I reflected on a conversation I'd had with my consultant when I had my son (I am immune compromised) about how if he got chicken pox, I would need to isolate from him

I didnt really register that there was a vaccine until this thread. I realise he is eligible to receive it but having rung my doctors, they say they don't do it there and I'd have to pay privately. But he's eligible on the nhs?

For those who has their children vaccinated, how did you get this done if your Gp didn't provide the service?

Also OP, have you considered getting your children vaccinated from CP as well (ducks for cover and hides 😉 😆)

I put in writing to the practice manager quoting NHS policy and asked them to reply, in writing, why the were refusing it so I could seek it elsewhere.

The next contact I had was for appointments.

I think in their case they hadn’t ever had anyone ask and push for it.

My DD who is vulnerable had hers in hospital, but that’s standard for anything she has.

Thanks so much @JustLyra

I had a frustrating conversation with the receptionist where she just kept saying that they don't offer it so I asked where they were referring their patients to who needed it, to be told again they don't offer it, so I asked could I speak to the GP who might be able to assist...no as they don't offer it. Eventually she just said I'd need to pay and go privately.

I'll write to the practice manager and try and find the guidelines. Thank you x

Maybe speak to them again, especially if you can go in with the guidance printed out. They’re probably just not experienced with it and aren’t actually listening properly.

For those not eligible to have the CP vaccine on the NHS, we got both my sons vaccinated at Superdrug. Think it was £140 per child (from memory, £70 per jab - they need two). I know that's unaffordable for some but thought I'd mention it in case it helps. Was quick and easy to book online. My boys are not clinically vulnerable but chickenpox can be nasty for even very healthy people, and unpleasant at best - plus, aside from that, I felt it was worth it to avoid missing loads of work! Plus the more kids that get vaccinated (like in other countries) the more it reduces the risk of spreading CP to others and causing serious harm.

@swimmingwiththefishes
Here is the link to the NHS site about who is eligible for an NHS CP vaccine

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine-questions-answers/

I would ask to speak to the Practice Manager about it in the first instance. FWIW my GP confirmed the NHS does vaccination children if there is a clinical need (ie for the child or for someone they live with)