"gently move away from..." can fuck off

[MolliciousIntent]

If you'll pardon my french. But I've been trying to "gently move away from" feeding my baby to sleep (as advised by so many on here) and I just don't get how it's supposed to be possible without screaming! I remove the nipple, she thrashes, demands it back, and then sobs if she doesn't get it. As soon as she does get it, fast asleep.

And before I get a huge influx of people telling me to just go with it cs it's normal, I was completely happy to do that until a fortnight ago, when it became impossible to unlatch her without her waking up and screaming. She will literally only sleep with my nipple in her mouth. No amount of gentle this or that will do, it is boob or bust. Ive tried feeding lying down/safe cosleeping but I've got a bad back and literally cannot sustain the position needed for safe cosleeping/boobsleeping without waking up immobilised by pain.

She's 4.5m and I'm genuinely counting down the days to 6m when I can try Ferber.

oh my word, she's still so young. There is inevitably going to be crying involved if you try to stop something which works so well for her and she's so used to. I spent MONTHS trying to gently ease away from feeding to sleep, and in the end just gave up and coslept and fed using the side lying method. Once I stopped worrying about it I got a lot more sleep! Worth looking up the safe sleep 7 if you're going to do this.

You have done SO well getting this far with breastfeeding, believe me you will thank yourself in the future when LO has fewer colds, throat and ear infections. There are also health benefits for you, reduced rates of diabetes, cancer etc.. At times I felt like giving up I found it helpful to search online for the benefits to remind myself.

Having said that, there is something to be said for breastfed babies waking more frequently. However, you have a wonderful tool that can get LO to sleep, soothe their crying immediately, give them comfort during vaccinations, etc. Honestly it's short term pain for long-term gain.

I found the LLLI (la leche league international) facebook page a huge help and support, every query is answered by a lactation consultant. Hope some of this helps.

I'm quite surprised you think babies have the same cognitive function as adults. Sorry if that sounds snippy, but it's obvious.

A quick Google search doesn't validate any of your claims, except on one fluffy parenting website with no references.

This article however references several scientific studies that have been undertaken on the damage excessive crying can cause:

www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/fussy-baby/science-excessive-crying-harmful/

Also, there are more gentle sleep training methods than Ferber. Still involving a lot of crying, but staying with them in the room initially for example, and only comforting every few minutes.

She's so little!! Why do you need to stop this now? I fed mine to sleep until around 8 months and co slept until 13. At 20 months he sleep like an absolute dream in his cot without being fed to sleep - and has for months.

I didn't have the issues you have, but I swear by the Parent and Baby Coach. Lovely course. I sleep trained from 4 months.

She said, because she can't keep up the position. I couldn't either, I'm a wriggler, that's why I knew I couldn't cosleep safely.

I don't have a problem with feeding to sleep, but I'm physically unable to co-sleep, as I said in my OP, and she currently will not sleep unless she has my nipple in her mouth (also in my OP) so I'm just not getting any sleep at all.

I've been there with a baby who woke up if I ever unlatched him and found the sorts of comments you are getting unhelpful (but well meaning) as obviously from people who had different sorts of babies...

On the positive side I found the being latched on all night was a temporary phase - it won't be indefinite- at around 4 months it was a combination of growth spurt and teething...could your baby be having one of those? Or be a bit ill?

It got better without me changing anything so it may be that you just have to somehow survive a few more days and you will be able to unlatch again...

I coslept though as while I could unlatch my baby he tended to wake up if I wasn't touching him...maybe you can find a way to cosleep that's ok for your back- especially as your baby is a bit older the exact position probably matters a little less.

@Calphurnia88. I think you've misunderstood my original post. I am not a fan of CIO. I've never done it, nor sleep training. I BF and co-sleep. I know excessive crying is bad for babies. My point is that a little crying is normal for babies and children when they are tired, and is a stress release. This is not some big secret. It is widely known. This is why babies and children cry when they are tired, even whilst being held and comforted.

I'm going to bow out now to avoid further derailing for the OP, and because all this 'yes it is, no it isn't' back and forth isn't useful. If posters are interested, they can read about it and make up their own mind.

It's not immediate but you could try habit stacking? So as you're BF also introduce bum pats or back strokes or rocking etc, whatever will possibly work. Then as you build up the association of feeding + rocking, you can reduce the feeding but keep doing the rocking. This will take weeks rather than days though.

It does sound like the 4 month regression to me, which was a killer. I hope you get some sleep soon!

@GreenRainbowSun you're a ray of hope in a pretty bleak morning, thank you.

If you can afford it, a gentle sleep consultant can make a huge difference. We worked with Emily at www.dream-nights.com - the best money we ever spent on my first and I'm planning to hire her again for the second.

I couldn't unlatch DS until he was sound asleep and his mouth relaxed, and I used to slip in a newborn sized dummy as I unlatched him. He'd startle in his sleep and suck furiously a few times. It mostly worked.

Sympathy to you op. 4 months can be a particularly bad time for spurts and leaps so it may be a temporary regression.

It’s nap time so I’m currently boobing my little boob monster to sleep and will just stay here till she wakes up as she has never settled for a nap.

Ive never cs though. I wait till she is 100% asleep then try and move her like a ninja into the cot.

If baby has become quite a light sleeper and too hard to move some things that can improve sleep quality are making sure they are out exposed to light in mid/late afternoon, giving the vit D drops, keeping naps and bedtime to the same time every day, same bed and bath routine, don’t let them get over tired, (I make this mistake a lot lol) if they get enough naps in the day it actually improves their nighttime sleep (easier said than done )

We have a fully separate cot in the same room but if I was to do this again I would probably get a next to me one as used one at a hotel and baby had best night of sleep ever.

I think there is a happy medium between cs and crying to sleep. If you keep being responsive they will gradually come off themselves and let you put them down even if they slightly wake up when moved.

My only other suggestion is how are you unlatching? I suggest waiting much longer after baby seems to be asleep until they pull/fall off or are so fast asleep that you can slowly pull it away without putting your finger in

And did it work? Just do that then!

This is not only your problem to solve. She has two parents. If DH co-sleeping works then that's what needs to happen for a while to break the habit, then you can figure out what to do next.

I did this with my oldest. He didn't sleep through a night until he was almost 2 😟 Sorry...no advice. It's exhausting isn't it? I'm sure there must be a solution. When I had my next 2 dc's I tried really hard to make sure it wasn't a thing. My oldest is 21 now...thankfully it's a distant memory.

Why all the rules?

Sorry, but the only way to solve this is to let her cry. Rip off the plaster.

I guarantee it will only take a few days.

What about a sling OP, will she sleep in one? Obviously not ideal to put her in a sling in the middle of the night but I've done it before when I've been desperate. I also heated up the mattress to make it easier to put my un-put-downable baby down. Could you or DH get her to sleep in the sling, then heat up the mattress with a hot water bottle before trying to put her down?

It did work! After a bit of yelling. It's never worked before, so that was pretty exciting. It's not really a permanent fix because she still needs feeding every 2 or 3 hours, which DH can't do, but it stopped me losing my mind last night. I think we're going to need to have a Council of War tonight and come up with some kind of plan.

Great! Yes come up with a plan. He can bring her to you for feeds. Try it for a week and then see how it goes.

You will both be very tired but it's short term pain for hopefully long term gain.

You have to persist with a dummy, they won't take it straight away.

I've been trying the dummy most days since she was about 3m, she hates it and has no interest in changing her mind.

She's 4.5 months, I think you need to lower your expectations here. I'm currently breastfeeding my third child, he's 15 months. I've always gone with the flow, sorry to say and yes they all had phases like you describe but they do come out the other side. I always fed on my side with them on the bed when they did this, I have a really bad back but it was fine for me, lots of people don't feel safe though I understand that. Feeding and then unlatching and replacing with a dummy but carry on holding for a while might be worth a go? Your baby associates having your boob in their mouth with not only food but also safety and comfort, if you don't want to sit there with your baby attached you need to try to switch to other things but maintain that closeness. It will just be a phase though either way.

Baby brains are hard wired to protect themselves against predators by doing everything they can to stay close to their mother who can protect them.
Look up the evidence based research on how depression is linked to being left to cry without being held often - the brain fills with stress.
Your baby sounds like a perfectly healthy child trying very hard to tell you they need you to parent them 24 hours a day and not just when you're awake.
Hold them before they get too old to hold.

OP, I read that the baby is supposed to sleep for longer cycles at around 3-4 months. In reality, it got worse, much worse. Same issue in that my baby wanted to sleep in my arms with my boob in her mouth. She would not be put down and would wake up immediately and cry and cry and cry hysterically. Not 5 mins, if only.

I did not do any version of CIO because of her 'strong' personality. She was a super light sleeper that would wake up, like the possessed in the Exorcist, at the slightest movement. The sling did not work (anyway it is too hot in this weather). So I had to find a method which allowed her to drift off to sleep without having to lower her or move her so she did not wake up.

The answer was the buggy. She would sleep in the buggy. I would walk her outside at her nap times. The change of atmosphere and vibrating movement of the buggy on rough surface (more cobbly the better) sent her to sleep. I continued walking until she was in deep deep sleep before coming back to the house, always rocking so that the buggy was never still. And did my housework one-handed, with the other hand continuing to rock her.

This is pretty extreme but needs must. It gave me a break from constantly holding her with my boob in her mouth and allowed me to get on with chores, albeit slowly.

When she was awake, she could not be put down (or she would cry up a storm) and so I carried her in the sling. There I had 2 arms and during that time, would do all the two-handed tasks e.g. washing up or arranging things so that when I only had one-hand, I could easily get on with that.

I lost so much weight!