"gently move away from..." can fuck off

[MolliciousIntent]

If you'll pardon my french. But I've been trying to "gently move away from" feeding my baby to sleep (as advised by so many on here) and I just don't get how it's supposed to be possible without screaming! I remove the nipple, she thrashes, demands it back, and then sobs if she doesn't get it. As soon as she does get it, fast asleep.

And before I get a huge influx of people telling me to just go with it cs it's normal, I was completely happy to do that until a fortnight ago, when it became impossible to unlatch her without her waking up and screaming. She will literally only sleep with my nipple in her mouth. No amount of gentle this or that will do, it is boob or bust. Ive tried feeding lying down/safe cosleeping but I've got a bad back and literally cannot sustain the position needed for safe cosleeping/boobsleeping without waking up immobilised by pain.

She's 4.5m and I'm genuinely counting down the days to 6m when I can try Ferber.

Has she got reflux ? This spunds like my experience with dd1 its hell, it only got better when i was pregannt and couldnt cope at all anymore made my partner do night wakes she was 18 months at that point. Its hard no advice as i just quit my job and became a sahm

So sorry to hear what you're going through - I had this with DS1 and it just leaves you utterly exhausted. I'm afraid I don't have any advice, just sympathy and hugs - I remember about the 4month mark things were at their worst (I think a 4 month sleep regression is really common) but it definitely got better. My mum always tells me "everything is just a phase" so I would repeat that to myself and try remember that it will get better (and it did). Hang on in there, you're doing the best you can, and take any offers of help during the day/evening 😜

Sorry wrong emoji! Was meant to be flowers

This.

These posts make me so sad. I’m no Earth Mother but we’ve really lost sight of what is normal with a baby.

4.5 months is still TINY - they still think they’re a part of you.

I’m not saying it’s easy but they’re just doing what they do.

I used to have to do ‘bait and switch’ with DS2 by unlatching him and stuffing a dummy in…
have you tried that?

@MolliciousIntent

4 mo, awful sleep regression. GOT HV advice and sleep trained.

1. Bought a small muslin with a satin edge for holding, muslin rather than teddy as it’s safer at 4 mo.

2. Agreed boob only every 3h at night.

3. In the meantime, she’d sleep in the sidecar cot with DH next to her, not me. If upset, DH would comfort, pat, hug, hold his hand on her tummy but ABSOLUTELY no boob until 3h since last boob.

It was upsetting for two nights, then she found her thumb for sucking, got used to the muslin, and started sleeping 6h+3h+3h in the night.

She’s now 4, been a brilliant sleeper since. We recently broke the thumb habit. She still has the muslin.

And btw, we kept breastfeeding till s he was 3yo, sleep training didn’t break that in any way.

Something I wish more parents would accept much, much sooner is that at some point your baby has to learn that screaming isn’t going to get them what they want anymore

when I went from breastfeeding to sleep to settling with a story and a snuggle dd was 7mo and like so many others before me I felt trapped by the idea that I wasn’t supposed to let my baby cry even for a second.
eventually the day came where I had to go to the toilet while I was trying to settle her.

she screamed blue murder while I was peeing and washing my hands and by the time my hand was on the door handle she had started to wind down, so I waited outside the door frozen and realised she was settling. I never fed to sleep again.

me being there and smelling of milk was the distraction keeping her awake at that point!

sometimes your baby is going to cry because they aren’t getting their own way… trying to placate them at all costs will turn them into entitled arseholes and you into a jibbering wreck.

So OP should just let her back get totally fucked out of some parental Martydom?

I had entirely realistic expectations of newborn/baby sleep

Those expectations included sleep training

I don't have any advice, OP, because I'm in the same human dummy position, but I just wanted to send solidarity and hope it gets better for you soon. It's rubbish. I know.

Do you have Ewan the sheep? It's not a solution for the breastfeeding issues but might keep her from waking up so often so that you can get a longer rest.

At that age I left them for up to 6 minutes to settle themselves (I mean, whilst crying). I wouldn't do longer than that but often that was enough.

I would have white noise on VERY LOUD while you do it.

She not saying she expects her to sleep though the night!!
She jus doesn’t want to have to spend night after night with her nipples in someone else’s mouth while her back is screaming in pain!!

I have one of these! He also wouldn't sleep anywhere but in my arms until very recently. He's now 9 months old and it is starting to get a bit easier. A good tip I've found is a gentle unlatch using your finger, then placing your finger under their bottom lip and holding it gently there for a few seconds. Don't know why it works but it does, they don't seem to realise they've been unlatched!

Assume you're Australian (not sure where OP is) but in the UK we are currently experiencing a heatwave.

My 3mo has needed more night feeds this week, but I have assumed that this is normal given the heat. Much in the same way that I've needed a glass of water in the middle of the night to help me go back to sleep.

@MolliciousIntent

Up until a week ago she'd feed to sleep and then go down for a bit and that was fine, this is new, so I was ranting

you said earlier that you just wanted to vent, yes of course that's 'allowed' but YOU ousted in AIBU, not the place for venting, try chat or an appropriate topic.

so, in a WEEK you have tried everything. I think that's extremely unlikely and even if you had, you wouldn't have given any method long enough to work.

Sleep deprivation is dreadful & affects your ability to think straight.

Just feed her when she needs it & then get DH to settle her. If he complains, tell him to try to settle her without a feed & see how he feels after a few hours (except I'd only threaten not follow through for DD's sake).

I agree with this. My (4th) baby did (and still does sometimes) this, but the screaming doesn't usually last long. And while you are holding them, you are comforting them, and so stress levels don't get too high. Remember too, that crying in itself releases stress. Cortisol gets released in their tears. Some babies even cry as a way of self soothing.

And please pay no attention to the ignorant PP who said you have created a sleep crutch by breastfeeding. It's nonsense. Babies are designed to fall asleep by breastfeeding. You are doing perfectly. Sending hugs and empathy, and remember, this will just be a phase and 'this too shall pass'. 4 months is classic for a sleep regression.

Have you tried a natural latex dummy? They’re much softer and more like skin
NUK used to make them

Are you based in the UK? I ask because my 3mo has been a lot more sucky in the last week (will unlatch for bedtime but not daytime naps) and I am convinced its linked to the heat somehow.

Could be talking complete rubbish, but it has coincided with when the hot weather kicked in and we're struggling to keep our house cool (fan directly onto bed worked last night).

Does your baby ever suck on either yours or DH's finger? My first baby was like yours. I tried soothers and she refused them, screaming for my nipple. One day DH put his finger in her mouth in desperation and she sucked it. It turned out she didn't like the size of the soother as it was too small in her mouth. We went around the shops holding soothers up against DH's finger until we found a similar sized one. She took it straight away. Maybe try a different sized soother to see if that works.

I have no advice OP, but sending you and (no wine as you’re bf-ing). The nights when they don’t sleep seem endless.
I hope you’re at the other side of this soon.

And....This is why you should not get your kid in the habit of being nursed to sleep. Now you are fckd.

Remember too, that crying in itself releases stress. Cortisol gets released in their tears. Some babies even cry as a way of self soothing.

Hate to be that guy, but what scientific evidence do you have to back this up? I have literally never read any of these and I've been obsessed with baby sleep ever since LO was born 3 months ago lol.

I have no advice, I had two babies that would only take milk directly from source, many rough phases of disturbed sleep that finally settled off at around 18m.

In DS1's case he was one of those inconvenient babies that didn't come with handy label to indicate that he had CMPA, soya intolerance and ASD. I did try at 5m in a broken state to give him formula and within days it was easier to cover him entirely in steroid cream than idenify the few tiny patches not crusty with eczema. He never accepted a bottle again.

DS2 was easier in that he was better at co-sleeping, could feed less intrusively and didn't have a biting phase.

Some methods work for some babies. I'm glad I didn't try too hard with DS1 or I'd have potentially made him rather ill and have resulted in him being on neocate if I'd lost my supply. The plod on and regularly vent method worked for me despite regularly feeling crap about being told that babies of his age not "needing" night feeds, when actually he probably did it to soothe indigestion from food allergies.

It's hard and while it's gruelling, it's not forever.