My brother refuses to move out

[tryingtohelpmyparents]

Name change.

My brother is 37. He has always lived at home. Pre covid; he was travelling mostly the states on a specific visa (can't remember which one.... b1?) anyway, he was only home for like a month, then away back over again for 3-4 months at a time. Covid hit and he's found himself stuck at home.

Since this time, he has been incredibly troubled. I worry I may offend here but I'm saying as it is...

He says he's depressed. However he only treats my parents like absolute shite. He does nothing in the house and expects everything to be handed to him. He acts like everything is fine, and I'd honestly say he is his usual self to his friends.

He is very manipulative to get his way. My parents are late 60s and honestly I think they are verging on a stroke or heart attack. Believe me when I say this, they are at breaking point.

They have asked him to leave, says he won't as he has mental health issues and can't manage on his own.
They have offered to buy him a place, he refuses.
They have tried calling various groups, police (when he's in one of his aggressive outbursts), social services and no one helps. Just tell my parents to ask him to leave which he refuses to do.

Lately my dad booked them a holiday and my brother wanted to go. So he booked it. My brother paid. The night before the holiday, he had an outburst and refused to go. Ironically he survived in the house for 3 weeks absolutely fine despite claiming he can't live on his own.

My parents have been home less than a week and he's kicked off again. Claims my dad is aggressive and is a bully. He's anything but.

My brother is on medication but always taps the doctors all is fine. He smokes weed and vapes loads.

It's now at the stage my parents are fighting (verbally) with each other.

I'm worried about my parents. But I don't know what to do. He refuses to leave and says he will commit suicide if he's forced to leave. My parents fully believe he would do it.

He is a musician by trade so he does some work for his commissions, but half the time he blames my parents aggression as the reason he falls behind on work.

He hates my parents but he refuses to leave. He's got it good at home. I've seen how he manipulates the situation, makes my parents out to be the bad one when it's honestly him and his moods. I honestly think he might be bipolar.
He has counselling but he says it's a waste of time. He claims he had a life of bullying from my dad. He didn't and I know that for a fact.

What can we do? No one seems to want to help.

They can't just "get him sectioned". The law stopped working like that a while ago. Mental health professionals would have to agree he needs urgent assessment or treatment or is a danger to himself or others. Smoking weed, being an ass and somewhat loose threats of suicide won't come close.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1266&propertyTypes=&mustHave=retirement&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

You can buy a retirement property like this in Scotland.
They seem to be well off - buy one of these and move out. They're mostly one bed - no room for son. DM can call on him daily if she's worried about him.

Well it sounds like you have tried all the sensible things.

Do you know anyone who could pretend to buy the house?

Get your parents to book a moving company but put everything in storage and get your parents away for a couple of weeks.

Get 'new owner' to come round to measure up for curtains, ideally this person should be a huge man with tattoos and a big dog.

Send mum on a holiday, and move him out by force whilst she's not there??
Awful situation though

theyneed to give him an ultimatum. Tell him he has to move out by next month.
If he refuses to move out at that set date they should get the police involved and get the locks changed! Help your parents to do this. Good luck x

Or they could sell their house?

When my brother refused to move out, my parents got an estate agent round. They pretended to sell the house, to down size to a one bedroom bungalow. My brother moved out ASAP.

Hi OP. I've worked with numerous families like this where adult children are referred to us to help them find their own property but they don't want to move out. Also lots of DA like this also.

An outside agency can absolutely help with this situation. If your brother is happy to meet with a support worker they can approach the subject from an alternative POV . A guy going in especially might help as living with your parents past a certain age isn't something to be desired by most men. We approach with what are your aspirations and imagine what you could achieve living on your own. You must want your own life and privacy etc. The draw is the support worker can do a lot of the leg work taking strain off the adult and then slowly give them their inspenedence and make them do things themselves. Much easier coking from a stranger than a parent. We have loads success with this. The SW can also keep an eye on your parents well being refer them for povas if concerned and approach the council re the DA to help move him on. If your parents willing help out financially could all move a lot quicker and they can also help him get support with his mental health. Look for tenancy support in their area. But def get fresh eyes on that situation and a non judgemental supportive but firm voice in there to act for all three involved. Good luck

@tryingtohelpmyparents

It doesn't matter he's not a tenant. Even squatters require a court order to legally remove them.
What it means is that it gives a legal basis for enforcement through bailiffs if necessary

Just to add if you feel your brother would refuse to engage or become cross about being referred in, refer your parents instead under the guise that they need the support and the SW if a good one can build relationship with your brother without the pressure and get him on board that way. I've also done this and it's worked

I had similar op. We did not ask her to leave because we were fearful for her children who she would take with her for leverage for accomodation. Whilst it is quite true they were her childen, not ours, they were left with us 24/7 whilst she drank herself into oblivion, spending nights with random men. Our lives were miserable and I can see now how bad the abuse was. We were so busy trying to make things right for her that she was prioritised above everything.

The children ended up being placed with us through the courts but not before she left taking the youngest, claiming we had thrown her out and were abusers. When I hear this now, I do question it sadly.

When she left the atmosphere lifted and we could lead a normal life. Her DS2 was returned to us when she abandoned him. He served his purpose.

Your parents must be strong. They must present a united front with your full support op. If they cannot do this, then this situation will continue. The ball is in their court. They must tell him to leave. They must change the locks. They can find him alternative accommodation if necessary. I know it is hard but the relief will be palpable.

I now have two teenage gs's living with us. Yes, they can be annoying but it is a normal functioning relationship so very different from the past.

@Bednobsbroomsticks so let me get this straight taxpayers fund a person to remove an able bodied grown male from his mother‘s breast and teach him how to be an independent adult, that is that actually a serious thing ? Whilst parents of disabled children cannot get a few hours a week respite ? the world‘s gone fucking mad.

I think if I were them I would buy a flat and furnish it with basic items. When that's set up then I would change the locks and give him the key to the new place.

Your mum would then know that he had somewhere to go to where he'd be safe.

It must be incredibly stressful for them.

Your DPs are in their late 60s? Now is the perfect time to start downsizing surely? There are some lovely retirement villages.

This was my thought too. Are these social workers then?

Don't do this. The rental will be in your parents name and when your brother stops paying rent ( which he will) your parents will be liable. It will be a complete mess and only add to the stress.

I'm not even sure that it's possible to rent a property in someone else's name.

Exactly Knitting. I'd also advise them against being guarantors for the same reason.

If they were prepared to buy him somewhere to live I think renting a flat for him would be a cheaper option. It could be transferred into his name if he moved into it, even if they guaranteed the rent, that would be a lot cheaper than buying him a house!

There are various ways to force or semi-trick him out of your parents place. But until your mum is prepared to risk him being responsible for himself and all the potential negative impacts that could have none of it is worth doing because she will simply let him back in the minute he feels her he no longer has anywhere to live.

This is the really block to the supposed desire to get the DB to stand on his own two feet. It requires letting him stumble and even fall as he learns to and his mum won’t do that.

I think your mum’s fear that if he does get kicked out he’ll end up an addict in a homeless shelter or on the streets stands a reasonable chance of coming true and that isn’t something you’d wish for your kids. I could see how, as a parent, it could be hard to weight that risk against the damage done by infantilising him the way they have.

I don’t know what the answer is, OP but would point out that in someways, trying to solve this for your parents would be mirroring what they are doing with your DB in some ways. Obviously very different details, but don’t get too involved in trying to persuade either of them to follow a particular plan or in doing the leg work for one they agree to go with. Let them know what you know, help out or offer your opinion if they ask, but they need to make the decisions, commit to the course and take the steps. You can’t do that for them without infantilising them because it’s part of the taking responsibility for their own situation. (Unless your parents are not capable of looking after themselves, of course).

He threatens suicide.
DM won't chuck him out if that is the risk - or what he says is a risk.

Ever think he's just a cunt, not bipolar?

He has no issues, he knows how to have a tantrum, that's all.

Drag him, kicking and screaming if needs be, to the airport. Get his friends to take him, he'll behave then like a good little boy. While doing that, get the locks changed on your parents house. Dump all his shit in a new flat. Send him the address while he is away and tell him to grow the fuck up.

I know someone like this and when life gets tough or their parents tell me firmly to move out or they can’t provide however much money they want then they pull the suicide card. Over and over and over. They haven’t committed suicide it’s just horrific emotional manipulative and controlling behaviour. I don’t know what the best thing to do is in all honestly but I feel your pain!

Even if people threaten suicide as a form of coercive control they can still go through with it

unfortunately your brother needs help and your parents are not able to provide it

he might benefit from inpatient treatment for dependant personality disorder and some family therapy to help your mum

this will be expensive but maybe afterwards he could have a place to live very close by and then a gradual unraveling of the over enmeshed familial bonds
its probably a more complex situation than it seems at first sight

Do you have room for a mini house in the garden? Pop him in there. Then change your locks.

No decent advice but how sad for your
Mum and dad. They are scared by kicking him out he will commit suicide. Awful situation to be in