My brother refuses to move out

[tryingtohelpmyparents]

Name change.

My brother is 37. He has always lived at home. Pre covid; he was travelling mostly the states on a specific visa (can't remember which one.... b1?) anyway, he was only home for like a month, then away back over again for 3-4 months at a time. Covid hit and he's found himself stuck at home.

Since this time, he has been incredibly troubled. I worry I may offend here but I'm saying as it is...

He says he's depressed. However he only treats my parents like absolute shite. He does nothing in the house and expects everything to be handed to him. He acts like everything is fine, and I'd honestly say he is his usual self to his friends.

He is very manipulative to get his way. My parents are late 60s and honestly I think they are verging on a stroke or heart attack. Believe me when I say this, they are at breaking point.

They have asked him to leave, says he won't as he has mental health issues and can't manage on his own.
They have offered to buy him a place, he refuses.
They have tried calling various groups, police (when he's in one of his aggressive outbursts), social services and no one helps. Just tell my parents to ask him to leave which he refuses to do.

Lately my dad booked them a holiday and my brother wanted to go. So he booked it. My brother paid. The night before the holiday, he had an outburst and refused to go. Ironically he survived in the house for 3 weeks absolutely fine despite claiming he can't live on his own.

My parents have been home less than a week and he's kicked off again. Claims my dad is aggressive and is a bully. He's anything but.

My brother is on medication but always taps the doctors all is fine. He smokes weed and vapes loads.

It's now at the stage my parents are fighting (verbally) with each other.

I'm worried about my parents. But I don't know what to do. He refuses to leave and says he will commit suicide if he's forced to leave. My parents fully believe he would do it.

He is a musician by trade so he does some work for his commissions, but half the time he blames my parents aggression as the reason he falls behind on work.

He hates my parents but he refuses to leave. He's got it good at home. I've seen how he manipulates the situation, makes my parents out to be the bad one when it's honestly him and his moods. I honestly think he might be bipolar.
He has counselling but he says it's a waste of time. He claims he had a life of bullying from my dad. He didn't and I know that for a fact.

What can we do? No one seems to want to help.

this broke my heart to read. My poor wonderful mother just died last month, aged 68, (only retired at 66) as she was mentally and physically destroyed over the course of 7 years by a similar situation with my brother aged 42 who fell into a cocaine addiction in his late 30s. He refused to leave her home, threatened suicide many times when she made him leave, he had hallucinations and angry outbursts, had drug dealers at her door chasing money, he turned her house into an absolute tip with rubbish knee high, bugs, utter filth. Please I beg of you to get your parents help to remove him. My mother wouldn’t listen to us or accept the help to get her out of there. I hope your parents situation isn’t as bad but the manipulation and stress wore my mother down to a shell of who she was. My only saving grace is that she’s finally at peace

Send your mum on short holiday and when she's away, together with your dad arrange some accommodation for your brother (you can paid 3-6month rent upfront). Then pack his stuff, change locks and be firm with not letting him stay. When he becomes aggressive, call the police. Hopefully, by the time your mum is back your brother is tired of fighting with you and your dad and accepts that he now needs to stay somewhere else.

Until your mother supports your father (and you) your manipulative brother will never leave. It's not in his interest to leave as your mother is letting him manipulate the situation.

It's despicable that he's using a suicide threat to enable him to stay but maybe it's now time for all of you (ideally you, mother and father - but you and your father at a minimum, if your mother won't help) to call him on this.

Change the locks to all external doors, don't leave windows open/unlocked so he can't climb in, and put his bags out.

He's old enough to figure out what to do next. He's been sorting himself out for years. If he gets aggressive (which he no doubt will) call the police to move him on. Also tell them he's threatened suicide as a means of staying in the home his parents want him out of.

This situation is already affecting the relationship between your parents. Is your mother prepared to part with your father to let your brother leech on her for the rest of her life? 🌹

Unfortunately, the only solution is that your parents get tougher and throw him out. While they won't do that, there is nothing to do but just get on with it as it is.

This will only be resolved when your parents are on the same page as each other.

Explain this to your parents.

You can't help them unless they both agree he needs to move out.

If mum won't agree to tell him to leave, support your dad to leave.

You say it is your mother who is giving in to him and I wonder what support, if any, she is getting outside of the family. If she could get some counselling she may come to the realisation herself that she is being manipulated, if that's what is happening as you say. It might take some time for this to happen but it seems to me that she is the one that needs the support and help to change the situation.

Police can and will remove him. Social services need to involved as he is abusive. You can raise it as a safeguarding risk for your parents. He's essentially cuckooing them.

it's the homeless accommodation they worry about as the local one is full (no exaggeration) of drug addicts and they worry for his safety

But it doesn't have to be homeless accommodation? You say you're parents have offered to buy/rent him somewhere?

Your parents!

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this it is almost worse when someone else is being bullied and manipulated. I don't have any answers - my brother who smoked a lot of weed in his teens drifted around the world working as an English teacher had three engagements before marrying a lovely girl from NKorea... came back to uk following end of marriage ( due to his violent paranoia and alcoholism) and moved in with my parents aged 42 - that was 10 years ago . He was all the things your brother is being to your parents , however after years of lacklustre mental health interventions ( sectioned several times then released back to my parents), and being ‘warned by police’ he has finally turned a corner .... his last sectioning resulted in him being made to take his antipsychotic medication by monthly injection oír be sectioned automatically- so we have now had almost 18months of improved behaviour to the point that he is now living independently. ( honestly I never thought we would see the day ) so there is hope but it is almost as if they have to be seen as a danger to people other than family ( he was last sectioned after he battered down the neighbours front door and they called the police in fear for their lives ) in the meantime my lovely lovely dad died 6 years ago after 4 years of the most horrendous( mainly verbal) but also physical abuse - I have struggled to forgive my brother for this , but his psychosis is a genuine illness . Sorry not being much help , but I really feel your pain - no easy answers - my parents also spent thousands in private therapies for him - made not a whit of difference .... all you can do is be extra supportive of your mum and dad

I smoke weed when I feel like chilling out. Nothing wrong with it. Loads of countries have legalised it. It also means we do not have to go to street dealers with all the subsequent crime around that.

I still manage to organise my life, work, house, son as a LP, took care of my aging parents.

Sorry for you and your parents that you are going through this OP.
Radical measures are called for however unpleasant. You as a family cannot let one member fuck you all up.

I hope you all get the help you need.

My mum fully knows he is manipulating her. She says she can't take any more of this, but at the same time, is worried about how he will cope if he does leave.

Honestly, I'm all for him getting a wee flat near by. I'd happily stock his freezer full of batch cooking and leave him the recipes!

This is all a really unnecessary drama created by parents that cant agree and enforce boundaries.

I get that they are your parents and you care about them but you are making it your problem and it's not. They can change the locks or they can move out themselves. But they cant agree. So you adding your 2 cents makes no difference.

In your shoes idbhinestly top listening to them and shut the conversation down. "Sorry it's still stressful for you but theres really nothing more I can say. Let's go out now and try to have a nice day without worrying." Stop feeding the drama and they might actually do something.

If you have POA for your parents, that helps

Here is my suggestion, which is probably too far fetched, but maybe an element in it will help you craft your own plan

Find a rental for him and rent it, pay a month or so up front (then your mother doesnt need to worry about him being out of the streets). Put basic food in the fridge and sheets on the bed (again for your mothers benefit)

Apply for a non molestation order for them and make sure it specifies stating away from their house (if possible)

When its enforced, send your parents away for the weekend (with new cell phones so he cant call them), take your brother out for lunch and tell him he is not coming back to the house and give him the keys to the new rental. Tell him you will drop all his possessions off for him and that there is a court order for him to stay away. Tell him the locks will be changed and he will not have access (if you are v organized, have a lock smith at the house while you are at lunch).

If he causes problems, use the police and keep your parents away until he calms down a bit.

Cross your fingers.

OP you address everything but changing the locks. Tbh that sounds like the only thing that will work for your parents

Next time he threatens suicide, call 999 and get the police and ambulance service involved.

So your brother can arrange visas to work in the US and manage himself there but cant live in his home town or city? Is your mum able to see the ridiculousness of this? As for MH - as someone who worked in psychiatric hospitals I think this is a red herring. True mental health problems are not so convenient - people don't only have them when they are not getting their own way. He may have some mild problems, but I think the causes of his behaviour are more likely to be entitlement, selfishness and weed.

Is he going to go back to USA? I’d be very tempted for them to downsize to a 1 bed flat/bungalow in a over 55 development whilst he is away.

Sort out the alternative flat.
Change the locks on parents house when he is out.
Give him keys and help him settle into new flat. Is it possible for you to help him with this part?
Get non-mol order on parents house if necessary.

My dad has to arrange that for him - he wouldn't have a clue!

He's meant to being going back next week but we know he won't go! He's starting this episode now to get out of going!

I was going to say if he won’t move out then they should.

If he thinks his parents are such terrible people why does he live with them?

I would call out anything he said against your parents. Tell him he doesn’t mean what he says. He must think they are brilliant parents as he lives with them.

They need to make it their decision not his. Persuade your Mum that she can visit every day if she wants to and you’ll check on him as well. She can write to his GP so they’re aware he’s not well and living alone.
If they sort a flat and move his stuff while he’s out. Change the locks, then he’s gone. It’s up to him whether he goes to the flat or a park bench. I’d make sure I was there if I were you when he returns to the house. Offer him the keys explain that’s where his stuff is. He’s had plenty of warning that he wants welcome, if he kicks off ring the police. They won’t leave him on the doorstep kicking off.
It’s the only way I can see working OP.

People are MADE to leave properties all the time - as in divorces and unwelcome guests. How do you think women get divorced/separated and make their husbands/partners leave the home/a property as part of the break up arrangement and many women have to do this alone by themselves and protect young children too?
Regarding suicide - it is always a risk but a person at 37 has to take some responsibility for themselves. Why has he not got a GF he can live with etc?

his excuses are bull as at some point they will pass in, then what is he planning to do? he will be alone anyway. might as well learn to live by himself now rather than later. Tosser

I find that very hard to believe actually because my daughter got really upset and I was very concerned about her and called for an ambulance and instead of an ambulance I had 3 bloody police officers turn up on my doorstep.