My brother refuses to move out

[tryingtohelpmyparents]

Name change.

My brother is 37. He has always lived at home. Pre covid; he was travelling mostly the states on a specific visa (can't remember which one.... b1?) anyway, he was only home for like a month, then away back over again for 3-4 months at a time. Covid hit and he's found himself stuck at home.

Since this time, he has been incredibly troubled. I worry I may offend here but I'm saying as it is...

He says he's depressed. However he only treats my parents like absolute shite. He does nothing in the house and expects everything to be handed to him. He acts like everything is fine, and I'd honestly say he is his usual self to his friends.

He is very manipulative to get his way. My parents are late 60s and honestly I think they are verging on a stroke or heart attack. Believe me when I say this, they are at breaking point.

They have asked him to leave, says he won't as he has mental health issues and can't manage on his own.
They have offered to buy him a place, he refuses.
They have tried calling various groups, police (when he's in one of his aggressive outbursts), social services and no one helps. Just tell my parents to ask him to leave which he refuses to do.

Lately my dad booked them a holiday and my brother wanted to go. So he booked it. My brother paid. The night before the holiday, he had an outburst and refused to go. Ironically he survived in the house for 3 weeks absolutely fine despite claiming he can't live on his own.

My parents have been home less than a week and he's kicked off again. Claims my dad is aggressive and is a bully. He's anything but.

My brother is on medication but always taps the doctors all is fine. He smokes weed and vapes loads.

It's now at the stage my parents are fighting (verbally) with each other.

I'm worried about my parents. But I don't know what to do. He refuses to leave and says he will commit suicide if he's forced to leave. My parents fully believe he would do it.

He is a musician by trade so he does some work for his commissions, but half the time he blames my parents aggression as the reason he falls behind on work.

He hates my parents but he refuses to leave. He's got it good at home. I've seen how he manipulates the situation, makes my parents out to be the bad one when it's honestly him and his moods. I honestly think he might be bipolar.
He has counselling but he says it's a waste of time. He claims he had a life of bullying from my dad. He didn't and I know that for a fact.

What can we do? No one seems to want to help.

My friend's parents had this situation with her brother. They made an appointment with his GP and told the GP that he was suicidal. They called the police when he threatened suicide and when he had aggressive outbursts. The police did eventually remove him from the house and took him for an emergency psych evaluation. He was then admitted to hospital.

My other friend had a similar situation. Again, the police removed her brother from the house. Kept him in the cells overnight - he had been aggressive and it spilled into the street meaning he could be held on breach of the peace. Then sent him for an emergency psych evaluation. He wasn't admitted to hospital - because he wasn't suicidal just manipulative - but he went to stay elsewhere rather than going home to his parent's house because he realised his manipulation didn't work any more and he didn't want to risk another night in a police station or a hospital.

When your brother goes out, your parents could change the locks and bag up his stuff. He doesn't have a 'right' to stay in their house. They're entitled to put him out and if they can't do it physically then they're entitled to make it difficult for him to re-enter when he leaves.

Your parents have options, especially if they have the money to buy or rent somewhere else for him to live. It will be emotionally hard to kick their son out but, ultimately, if they're not willing to do that, then there's nothing that anyone else can do.

Saying he will kill himself is abusive btw. It all is. But that especially. Its more than being a shit, its coercive and controlling and your poor mum and dad can get help. But it will be incredibly hard of course as I'm sure the last thing they want to do is get him in trouble

It sounds like your mum feels very guilty and anxious about what would happen if they force him to leave. So I would be telling your mum that in the long run that this situation is making things incredibly difficult fir your brother. Say that she and your dad won't be able to care for him forever and that if this carries on they are making it impossible for him to live independently. And that the day he needs to do that WILL eventually come no matter what she feels about it. I would tell her that the best time for this to happen is NOW, while you're all healthy and able to support him.

Look for a small place for your parents and a small place for your brother and get them to push ahead with a move. Look up agencies that can support your brother if he begins to have mental health problems and show them to your mum.

I think it sounds like you need to push her (kindly but firmly) into making a move and your best way to do that is to emphasise the huge negatives and risk for your brother of things remaining as they are.

If your parents are not on board with trying to evict him (and it sounds as if your mother is not) then you're wasting your breath.

It's always sons isn't it? I've never heard of a daughter behaving the same.

What a horrible situation for your poor parents especially at an age when they should be able to relax and enjoy retirement.
Your db is being an arse but is also obviously struggling with mental health issues (happy, content grown men don’t treat their parents like crap or want to live at home with them). It’s all been made worse by the weed (I have this in my family, severe mental health issues exacerbated by cannabis smoking).
Is their garden large enough to take a cabin? As a temporary option could they have one built in the garden for your brother to live?
At least that way he won’t be in the actual house with them and they would have that little bit of space (and can lock the doors to show him this is their space and the cabin is his) and in the meantime get some family counselling to help them all sort through this.
Looks like it’s not a situation which will get resolved easily without some help with his mental health issues (and he really needs to get himself off the weed, he is obviously one of those people the drug is not suitable for).

But sometimes reaching rock bottom means dying. Especially where mental illness or neurodiversity are concerned. Would you really be happy to kick your child out if you thought they might die?

Your mother is going to have to accept that he's an adult and he's being abusive. Eventually, he'll have to stand on his own feet, to some degree. What does your mother thing will happen when she passes away? He has to learn to manage at least the basics on his own sooner or later. (And he clearly can. He just doesn't want to!)

It will be a hard pill for her to swallow, but as long as she gives in to his adult tantrums, nothing can change. He's getting what he wants and is too shameless to stop taking advantage. He's a grown man with a support network of family able to offer financial assistance. That's more than many people have!

If you have POA over your parents there's obviously a reason for that. That also means that it's your responsibility to deal with the situation because it seems they are incapable. The police in Scotland definitely will get involved if you use the correct phrasing and do it calmly. Point out the record of your other calls, mention the coercive and abusive behavior. Point out who owns the house, they no longer want him there and he needs to be removed, your parents have reduced capabilities and you hold power of attorney. If you have a flat set up for him to be removed to that's one less hastle for them to deal with. Then follow up quickly with a non molestation order, all I see in your replies is multiple excuses. If he was going to kill himself he'd have done it already. He won't and if he tries it will be superficial but an excellent road into accessing hospital mental health care (which he obviously requires for whatever the hell it is he's got going on)
As the eldest sibling there have been so many times where I've had to bite the bullet and be 'the bad guy' this is one of those times. Your mum might be a bit miffed but will come round, dad will be thankful and brother? Well he can spit his dummy out for as long as he likes.
If you don't want to do any of that and your mother won't allow other intervention then you need to tell her not to bring it up with you again, ever. If they won't take the advice or action required to deal with it they can't then moan and whine at you all the time that isn't fair.

They had their own wee cabin which he took over and is now stinking of weed, despite my parents asking him not to do it in there.

@Laurajane1987 just because you have a poa for somebody doesn't mean you can act on their behalf unless they have lost capacity. Nothing that the op has said has suggested that this is the case here.

My mum and I had poa for my dad who had dementia and we still have a hell of a battle to get my brother out of his house, despite the fact that he (brother) was robbing my dad blind because my dad said he was happy for him to be there.

If your parents won't do anything how can any outside agency do anything ..?
For your own sanity id be nipping the moaning from your parents in the bud as there's nothing you can do either....
Look up circles of influence....yoj cannot change your db behavior and equally not your parents ..so you need to try and disengage..

Your parents are choosing this all you can do is reflect that back to them..personally I wouldn't even discuss it anymore...and think about why u would cook for him if he did move to a flat....thats really strange...
Sounds you all think hes a child

Could they sell up and move into a retirement flat?

Without him, obvs

I think at this point you need family mediation or family counselling. Your parents are willing to chuck money to solve the problem so I suggest go private and get professional help on dispute resolution. That way your parents can explore legal options available to them and make it clear they are serious. Also as you said he seems to present a decent face to others and leave the d1ckish behaviour for home. A mediator might help him realise what he is doing.

I would say also he seems to be acting out / crying for help and suicide is the biggest killer of men on 40s. My DH’s brother (also massive weed-head) passed this way and his dad always believed it was a cry for help and he didn’t actually mean to do it. So whilst he may be threatening verbally now he may eventually do something stupid he didn’t mean to do and end up with very dire consequences. Sorry don’t mean to scare but just wanted share personal experience of this.

Take your mum on holiday to give your Dad a chance to pack your brother's bags and change the locks. He's not going anywhere until they take decisive action and it doesn't seem like your mum feels able to do that.

We had this situation with my brother, although I think possibly worse. Cocaine and heroin addiction and stealing from my mum/ setting up PayPal in her name, drug dealers at the door. She had to lock herself in her bedroom at night time and carry her handbag everywhere, it was horrendous. Long story short, he behaved in a certain really inappropriate way when he was on drugs and he turned it on me so my DH called the police and got it dealt with. When he was at the police station my other brother moved back in and got the locks changed and we helped her sell the house and she moved 300 miles away.

He must occasionally leave the house, change the locks, tell him where the rented flat is, call the police if he makes a fuss. No one is going to do it for them. It sounds like to and your parents are looking for some magic solution. There isn't one, we got lucky, but I can't overstate awful it was. He stole literally thousands from her, not accounting for how much he probably devalued the house by making it pretty much a crack den

@FOJN no use doing that if his mum just let's him in again when she gets back. Honestly, until they are both kn board there's nothing to be done - except to tell them to pack up moaning about it.

You can call the police and have him removed for breaching the peace, if he is in a property he does not pay rent in.
(From experience).

I really think they should be changing the locks and when he becomes aggressive that he can’t get in, ringing the police.

Take your mum on holiday to give your Dad a chance to pack your brother's bags and change the locks

Tempting as the idea may be, that could be a recipe for even more family division if DB persuaded his mum she'd been tricked - and if the suggestion was made to her beforehand she'd probably refuse to go anyway

As so many of us have said, there really isn't anything to be done until the DPs get themselves onto the same page. OP can't force this though, which is why backing away may be no bad idea

If your mum is not prepared to take a hard line and have him removed. Then there's nothing you can do.

They need to say to him clearly they are renting him a flat on x date. He'll have keys given to him and his belongings removed. Say if he refuses they'll have him removed by the police and then go through with it. He is holding your parents hostage.

I'm not sure what else you want to be told ?

The problem here is that despite being a victim of your Bs terrible behaviour, she is enabling it and unless she is prepared to get tough and basically trick him - ie you and another person take him somewhere for the day. During that day your DP change the locks and collect his stuff up and take it to a flat they have prepared. He is taken there at the end of the day and left there. That is the kindest way to get him out. He will tantrum and threaten and spiral down but ultimately it is what is best for him as well as your DP. Then they must not allow him in the house for a while, and limit contact. Rip off the plaster. Give him a shove and make him stand on his own 2 feet. If your mum wont do that, everyone will remain in this miserable situation and I would suggest you take a big step back, accept their choice, and agree to meet them only out of the house and not discuss your brother. Good luck.

My brother too - and it wasn't till my mother got dementia that my dad agreed to get him out and arranged for locks to be changed while my brother was out. Police were helpful when my brother came back and kicked off - escorted him in to get essentials, we packed up the rest and had it delivered to him.

Your mother needs to see what she's doing to her relationship with your father and you, and decide if she wants to live this life for the next 20 years.

Paying a few months rent for a flat sounds very generous, and may make her feel she's no abandoning him, but make sure you get the locks changed and that she doesn't give him a new one!

The only option is to force him out by changing the locks. Nothing else will work.