My brother refuses to move out

[tryingtohelpmyparents]

Name change.

My brother is 37. He has always lived at home. Pre covid; he was travelling mostly the states on a specific visa (can't remember which one.... b1?) anyway, he was only home for like a month, then away back over again for 3-4 months at a time. Covid hit and he's found himself stuck at home.

Since this time, he has been incredibly troubled. I worry I may offend here but I'm saying as it is...

He says he's depressed. However he only treats my parents like absolute shite. He does nothing in the house and expects everything to be handed to him. He acts like everything is fine, and I'd honestly say he is his usual self to his friends.

He is very manipulative to get his way. My parents are late 60s and honestly I think they are verging on a stroke or heart attack. Believe me when I say this, they are at breaking point.

They have asked him to leave, says he won't as he has mental health issues and can't manage on his own.
They have offered to buy him a place, he refuses.
They have tried calling various groups, police (when he's in one of his aggressive outbursts), social services and no one helps. Just tell my parents to ask him to leave which he refuses to do.

Lately my dad booked them a holiday and my brother wanted to go. So he booked it. My brother paid. The night before the holiday, he had an outburst and refused to go. Ironically he survived in the house for 3 weeks absolutely fine despite claiming he can't live on his own.

My parents have been home less than a week and he's kicked off again. Claims my dad is aggressive and is a bully. He's anything but.

My brother is on medication but always taps the doctors all is fine. He smokes weed and vapes loads.

It's now at the stage my parents are fighting (verbally) with each other.

I'm worried about my parents. But I don't know what to do. He refuses to leave and says he will commit suicide if he's forced to leave. My parents fully believe he would do it.

He is a musician by trade so he does some work for his commissions, but half the time he blames my parents aggression as the reason he falls behind on work.

He hates my parents but he refuses to leave. He's got it good at home. I've seen how he manipulates the situation, makes my parents out to be the bad one when it's honestly him and his moods. I honestly think he might be bipolar.
He has counselling but he says it's a waste of time. He claims he had a life of bullying from my dad. He didn't and I know that for a fact.

What can we do? No one seems to want to help.

Why the fuck would you inflict this on some poor woman my god that’s no solution.

Is there internet at home? cut that off.
Would your parents sell the house?
If I were in this situation I think I'd do that. Cut off internet and sell the house from under him. i know they shouldn't have to and don't want to...

OP the reason no-one can help your parents is because they won't follow any of the avenues that are actually open to them. I'm not saying it's not heartbreaking for all involved, but there are definite ways to enact firm boundaries here with your brother.

Your parents need to understand that they cannot control your brother's behaviour. They can only do what they feel is right and let him make his choices. I can't understand why they're saying he 'won't accept' a rented flat. Of course he won't - he's happy where he is! But if that's what they want to do to ensure he has the best possible chance of safety, then they need to orgnise it and then evict him/change the locks. The problem is they are trying to control all the outcomes so they know he is happy and safe, which is totally understandable, but your brother is using that to manipulate them, so they need to accept that they can't control the outcomes and can only do the best they can and let your brother make his choices from there.

@tryingtohelpmyparents - that is too bad. Because if he goes they need to get a restraining/non molestation order and change the locks when he is gone. But if he does not go, I would suggest you support your mother to see her GP to discuss her stress. She sounds like the key here. Although both have been enabling him, sorting out visas and stuff. Nevertheless, however much your dad does to get him to the US, he still has to manage by himself when he is there. And managed when they were away. So sorry for you all, this is an awful situation.

To be honest OP it sounds like no one has a backbone here

understandably there are concerns but your parents have options - they’re not using them and that’s their issue

they are enabling your brother

so are you! Go no contact with him

do something to prove your point

theyre not being forceful enough- what exactly do they tell the police they need to say they want him removed from their house theyre frightened of him not just say can you come round please

hes a manoulative twat he knows exactly what hes doing-how can he say he wont cope alone when hes been travelling abroad

Another option: sell the house (assuming it's a bigger house that's too big for your parents in retirement). Your parents can then buy a retirement home and reconsider buying him a flat. Has the advantage that they might be able to conceal their new address from him.

A further option, if your parents have lots of money: they move out into their preferred retirement property and he's left in the house on his own.

Oh wow, I'm in exactly the same situation.

A sibling in his mid thirties who is living at home, claims he can't cope alone because he's autistic (like me), has ADHD (like me) and anxiety (like me). I've had a hard life so far but have tried my hardest to help myself, spent a fortune on therapy and have a decent job. He seems to expect my parents to sort his life out and still blames them for the way his life has turned out, despite being 35.

My parents are terrified to throw him out because every time he leaves, he ends up in some shit and they're afraid he'll die.

Funny how it's always men who act like this, isn't it?

Yes....fucking hell....why would anyone think some poor woman should have to deal with this?

The brother staying at home is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. Treating it might be a better idea than just kicking him out by force. I don't know if 37 is too late for it, but OP's brother needs to start doing things for himself. Doing his own laundry, cooking for himself, paying own bills, wifi password changed etc. Brother needs to learn staying with parents isn't an easier life than making his own way. Parents need to start acting as if he isn't there and maybe he'll get the hint. Bonus points if they walk around the house naked or have stupidly loud sex within earshot of him.
Alternatively, maybe he needs to see a doctor?

Everything you’ve described there is my daughter to an absolute tee so I bought her house, she lives in it, pays rent from which which I pay all the bills and she’s as happy as Larry she literally could not wait to move out there was no way she was staying living with me for the rest of her life, her exact words.

she’s 21

Change the locks and leave his stuff in bin liners on the lawn an option?

Sounds like he needs DBT and has a personality disorder. If he doesn't get help then it shouldn't be up to other people to put up with his behaviour. You know that the only option is for them to force him out. Otherwise he will make their life miserable until they die. They'll have to tell him if he doesn't get therapy then he has to move out.

He doesn't know this but I have POA

Unless your parents have lost capacity - and it doesn't sound as if that's the case - your POA doesn't prevent them acting for themselves, so there's no knowing what they may allow themselves to be talked into

As PPs have said, if they're not both on the same page nothing will change, so really there's little point suggesting things if the answer's always "Ooooo I can't"

You wouldn't be unreasonable to ask them to stop moaning to you though ...

But there's a decent chance he'll die, and will that be any easier to live with?

This is what my parents have to think about every single day, because my cunt of a brother feels entitled to live off two pensioners in their late sixties.

I cannot believe there are so many people in my situation. I genuinely thought it was just me. My D’B’ is just like this but the situation has more mileage. He’s in his early 40s and refuses to leave. He’s also a weed smoker. He also threatens to kill himself and treats my parents like shit.

Twice my parents have managed to get him out. Once with the help of the police (he can become very aggressive), and in retaliation he called mum from the streets. He’d deliberately got a tent and slept outside to manipulate mum into having him back.

The second time she ended up paying all his rent and food shopping and it became too expensive so he came back. They’re 80 now and on the verge of divorce. Dads had enough but mum won’t agree to throwing my brother out.

They walk on eggshells in their own home. I have no doubt DB is trying to wait it out until they die so he can get the house. I used to get involved as mum would always complain but she won’t do anything about it so I no longer listen and have distanced myself. I have to protect my own mental health.

I have several friends with brothers like this. Always brothers, never sisters.

They seem to just blame the rest of the world for their failures instead of looking in the mirror. In every case, all the other siblings have moved out and are doing fine, but the loser is still at home, still blaming their parents for everything that ever went wrong. My brother acts as if my parents somehow invited him there, and they don't want him to leave, when the opposite is true.

I think it has something to do with the role of men in society. In previous generations, useless fuckers like this would have been palmed off on some poor woman to look after. Now that women are independent and able to choose, nobody wants them, and so they're just eternal children, sponging off Mum and Dad.

Make living there uncomfortable. Cut off the WiFi and TV subscriptions. No dinners or clothes washed. Maybe tell the rents to explore their sexuality loudly and often.

I wonder if he’s getting all food, laundry, cleaning done etc

also I wonder if he is getting money from your mother?

get him a three month rental - discuss with your mother first

consider telling his friends and see if they can talk to him

How does he have the money to fund all this travel? I'd be booking him a one way plane ticket then changing the locks

I agree with PPs, change the locks on the house and refuse to let him back in. If they don't want him homeless, they could still buy him a flat, give him the keys to it and change locks to their own house and refuse entry to him. He will have no choice but to live in the flat.

My family and I had a similar situation recently, except it my brother broke up with his ex and she refused to leave his flat. It got so bad they couldn't live together and he stayed between my mum and dad's houses while she squatted in his flat and locked him out his own flat which HE owns, not her. Got the locks changed on the flat whilst she was in there, she kicked off and with the support of the police, we kicked her out and have reclaimed his flat.

Would it help your mum be less soft if you reframed her behaviour?

By enabling him, she's not allowing him to hit rock bottom.

With that safety net in place, unable to hit rock bottom, there's zero reason in his eyes to change.

Remove the safety net and maybe he will / maybe he won't. But at least he's had a chance to.

His behaviour is tantamount to abuse, in their own home. It's horrific.

Where does he get money for weed?

Next time he threatens subside call 999 and have him sectioned. I had a family member suffer psychosis from smoking weed. It’s the only way to get him in the system and out of the house. It may sound extreme but it does sound like you have run out of options,

I empathise with you OP. I also have a brother who leeches off my parents and treats them like shit. Funnily enough, he also got mixed up in drugs. Seems to be the common theme...

Anyway, the truth is, you can't solve this problem. Your parents have to want to deal with this themselves. You can help them, you can work with them, but you can't make them do it.

Sounds like you dad wants him out but your mum isn't really on board. It's up to your Dad how far he's willing to go.

I would honestly leave it to them. I know it's hard, but there is nothing you can do.

This is abuse. Children to parent abuse is one of the fastest growing domestic abuse dynamics due to a) increasing number of adults children living with parents b) parents unwillingness to call it abuse in case they get their own child arrested. Look up CPV. A blog called holes in the wall. There is a charity called safelives who operate in Scotland who do stuff on this and might be as to help or know who would.

The police will only get involved properly if they're willing to call it abuse. But if your mum is scared of him she can legitimately call a domestic abuse service for support.

If they're not willing to go down that avenue as feels too extreme then I don't have any other suggestions that haven't been suggested but adults being abused and fearful of their own adult sons is more common than you think and domestic abuse services should provide support.

Domestic abuse is as simple as being scared and controlled by a loved one, partner, ex or family member.