Archie Battersbee case

[whynotwhatknot]

I was just wondering why we're not allowed to post about this case-the deletion message mentioned it was ongoing so wouldnt be fair to the family

Charlie gards case was on going and there was numerous threads about it

Anyway if this stands maybe we can discuss

Is there money being made? For what, the court cases?

The family could try to appeal this decision to the court of appeal, and then if they lost there, to the Supreme Court.

However, they would need permission from the court to do so, and would only get it if there were grounds for it. I suspect there won’t be grounds and any application for permission to appeal will be dismissed, although I’m speculating as I obviously haven’t seen Hayden J’s judgment!

That's the thing, no one knows. Anyone who asks is booted off the page and called a troll.

Lawyers are working pro bono as stated in the court documents and the NHS is free.

As I said it becoming apparent what's going on, and that this stopped being about that poor little boy weeks ago. The brother and his fiancée (the one who's having the rows on DFL) are off to Thailand in September, holiday just booked apparently.

At least nobody thought it would be a good idea to have a party and a bouncy castle outside the hospital this time.

They did do a big balloon release... despite lots of people saying how bad it is for the environment.

Thanks, @RocketsMagnificent7

<slumps>

Was impressed that people spoke out though!

Update posted. Just saying despite reports they haven't decided to let him go...

So it all continues.

What responsibility does the ward have to the children who are in need of a bed, the live but very unwell children? Are they being shipped to far away ICUs?

They will be turned away from that hospital, yes.

When I was reading about the Jahi McMath case, the girl who was ventilated for 5 years, it was interesting reading about each US states’ rules around ventilating essentially dead bodies. There are a few states where “beating heart equals living soul” and for religious reasons people can stay on a ventilator until they “die” naturally. Jahi’s family transferred her to New Jersey for this reason and she was ventilated at home.

However, her catastrophic post-op bleed happened in California and their rules outline how ICU is a valuable resource and once the medical staff decide ventilation is to be stopped, there’s only a few days before it is.

Over the 3 month period where Archie’s body - with his liquid, broken off brain - has been ventilated other children would have needed that bed and been turned away. While people are putting chocolate cake near a dead boy’s tongue other families will be much further away from their homes.

Imagine if it was a child that could have lived but didn't get a chance because of a lack of beds ,it doesn't bare thinking about

Exactly. During the height of Covid, there was talk about making tough decisions about who would be ventilated. Imagine being told there was no PICU bed for your child with Covid, who had a chance of recovery if given the rest that machines help with... because there is a corpse taking up a bed and has been for months.

*Update posted. Just saying despite reports they haven't decided to let him go...

So it all continues.*

Until Friday. It's not their decision anymore. The Judge will do the right thing for Archie, not his parents or anyone else.

But that's just proof of another lie/contradiction. In court they say one, on social media it's another, which begs the question why?

This isn't the final appeal - in fact, it isn't an appeal at all. They won the last appeal resulting in the case being sent back for rehearing, which is what today's hearing was. If they lose, they can apply again for leave to appeal all the way up to the ECHR.

That's what don't understand. The court reporting parents and the Facebook version seem two completely different people. Maybe it's the need to put on a front I dont know.

I'm slightly curious why they swopped lawyers. Edward Fitzgerald did a very good job for them, yet he hasn't appeared today. Perhaps they didn't want to accept his advice?

Indeed it's scary ,and whilst we know no covid didn't affect children that badly ,none of us knew this in the beginning of the pandemic it could easily have been a different scenario

If they were really so keen on Archie being allowed to go naturally, they would accept DNR. They seriously seem to want to risk a chaotic, awful death when someone jumps on his chest, potentially breaking ribs, whilst applying electric shocks, in the full knowledge it can't succeed. I'm prepared to cut Hollie a lot of slack but I just don't understand her thinking here.

It makes no sense.
Withdrawing support would mean a controlled and dignified death. All the family can gather round and say their bits and say goodbye.
Leaving it to fate could mean he passes when Hollie is off doing her 20th interview, and it will be chaotic and undignified.
I just can't understand how anyone would prefer that.
It seems they are just buying time because they still have the deluded belief that he is going to one day sit bolt upright and ask for a KFC.

It seems they are just buying time because they still have the deluded belief that he is going to one day sit bolt upright and ask for a KFC

After that interview where she said she hadn’t been able to go back home since it happened (due to trauma, not logistics) I think she’s holding on because after he’s finally put to rest, there’s an awful lot to come to terms with.

Again, I’m not being critical. It must have been horrific to find your son like that

Absolutely.
Hollie needs help, and a lot of it. Her army is not helping at all. They are making things worse.

Hollie needs someone to step in, take away her phone and give her some tough love to help her face what's to come.

Definitely! It can't help having a head turned in a direction and hearing things from one person yet so many from somewhere else. Anyone who disagrees or tries and gives a valid comment is called a troll so that can't help. Now it's all about chocolate cake and whatever.

I cant see Fridays outcome being anything that screams postive for them especially if there is a DNR plan in place. It does seem be better for them if they can control his passing but from sounds..who knows.

The whole episode is just absolutely heartbreaking.

Really taken aback by the family's comments on social media after what was reported from today.

They're completely contradicting what they said in court? I genuinely thought they would be accepting of the decision after it was stated they understood he was gone and there is sadly no chance of recovery. The army are being whipped up even more, lots of posts about how "the nurses won't help him now" if he has another cardiac arrest.

I think we're at a point where we need stronger laws surrounding social media and how it can be used tbh.

The army are being whipped up even more, lots of posts about how "the nurses won't help him now" if he has another cardiac arrest.

I'm quite sure they will help: they will help him to have as dignified and peaceful a death as possible. They will bust a gut to help his family, even though it won't be appreciated. And the army will still accuse them of murder.

Culturally, we’ve become bad at death. I remember when my dad had a hideous, rare aggressive sarcoma. When it came back he cried, denied what would have been purely palliative chemo and set his affairs in order. He chemo may have given him more time but wasn’t curative and would have likely had side effects. He wrote lots of cards and made many in person farewells. It was sad but he had adequate pain relief and the ability to say goodbye.

However, so many people struggle with the concept of dying, even though everyone does and will die. It’s become something to fight, deny, battle against. Hollie talks about how Archie is “still fighting” when his body is dead. I don’t find Hollie’s stance noble and brave, I understand how in the frenzied days after the hanging you might need more time to accept what you were being told (and what you can see) but it’s 3 months later, his brain has turned to liquid and he hasn’t moved or responded or roused in any way.

I don’t agree that “every mother would do this” because mothers make these decisions every day, and they don’t choose to keep a corpse with a dead brain ventilated for months. They don’t take pictures of him in a nappy and put on social media and they let their child go in a way that enables their dignify and privacy.