To not make my DD play with someone she doesn't want to?

[prissywakeup]

I'm having such problems at the moment with my DD (8 - 9 in October) and friendships. There is a girl on the street who my DD is very friendly with, will call her Rosie. There is another girl on the street that my DD and her friend are really not keen on, will call her Bex.

I have invited Bex over for dinner and to play to try and smooth things over but my DD just doesn't like her. If she comes to the door for my DD she will hide and beg me to lie and say she isn't in. Rosie and my DD play together a lot. They would play on the street or at the park but Bex would turn up and it ended up that Bex would always go home crying because she felt DD and Rosie were leaving her out.

I tried to speak to DD about being kind and how would she feel if she was being excluded etc. I then had Bex mum at my door saying that the girls were being nasty to Bex and hiding from her etc. the mum said to me in future if they don't want to play with her then the girls have just to say they don't want to play with her.

Bex stopped coming for DD since then and everything was fine. However, the past few days Bex has been coming again and my DD just doesn't want to play with her. So after school DD was at the park and Bex came over to her. DD said, 'I've had a bad day at school today so I don't really feel like playing' at which point Bex went back to her house where her mum was standing on the doorstep. Her mum shouted, 'I'm fucking sick of them! Stand up for yourself Bex, push her!'

So DD left the park and came and told me. Now the worry is if Rosie comes for her she feels like she can't play with her as it will upset Bex and her parents. DD is actually scared to walk past Bex house on her own now due to them shouting at her s few times.

I really don't know what to do. I am trying to teach my DD boundaries and how to assert them, I think forcing her to play with someone she has been quite clear she doesn't want to play with is going against what I'm teaching. At the same time I totally emphasis with Bex and her parents and how they must be feeling.

When I have asked the girls why they don't want to play with her they have said that she never wants to join in playing what they are playing, always starts crying if she doesn't get her way and they find her annoying.

I'm really not sure what to do, it's at the point I'm thinking of just keeping my DD in but that seems a shame. Any advice? AIBU to not force DD to play with bex?

Yes, I think the OP should advise the mother of the other child to say to other child to stop trying to play with them. It's obviously causing hurt to everyone. I use to try and play with two girls in my village (they were cousins) who clearly didn't want to play with me. They kept running off, making fun of me and avoiding me. I followed them around and badgered them until I went to big school and got some other friends. There were many days I'd go home in tears and be upset that they'd run off and not played with me and I wish my mum had said to me to try and stop playing with them and we'd do something else instead or just give me the hard truth that they didn't like me because it would've saved so many years of hurt. I obviously wasn't emotionally mature or resilient at ages 9/10 so just persevered and I wish an adult had intervened. It would've helped me in the long term.

It's such a thorny area. On the one hand you might have children purposely weaponising relational aggression to improve their own social standing. On the other hand you might have children whose lack of social and friendship skills make them poor or even toxic friends. Often these two issues intersect.

Ideally, Bex's parents would be investing time to help her learn how to be a good friend and how to maintain her own friendships with minimal adult intervention. Forced friendships, where other children tolerate her poor skills only out of obligation, are only a very short term fix (not to mention teaching the other girls that their job is to provide the emotional labour for others).

The other 2 girls' parents would ideally be teaching their girls to be honest and kind in their interactions with Bex. They should be encouraged to give Bex plenty of opportunities to join in, but also know it's ok to walk away if Bex is not playing nicely, preferably after explaining the reason why so Bex can learn and grow.

They should also remind their DDs that if you play in a shared or public space it is perfectly acceptable for others to ask to join in. If they know in advance they do not want Bex to join in they should stick to private spaces.

They should also remind their DDs that if you play in a shared or public space it is perfectly acceptable for others to ask to join in. If they know in advance they do not want Bex to join in they should stick to private spaces.

So if you're at a cafe/restaurant/pub with family or friends you should be compelled to let anyone who wants join your group and sit and chat/join your meal?
Of course if you want to eat/drink in private you should stick to doing that at home then?

From Bex's perspective isn't it better that she realises her social skills aren't great when she's still young and can potentially be taught how to manage friendships?

Why do you assume it’s Bex who has the bad social skills. Children can be nasty to each other for all sorts of reasons.

I think most people would consider crying when you don't get your way to be poor social skills.

@WhatNoRaisins

In adults. Children do find it harder to control their emotions.

Rightly or wrongly if it seems out of place to her peers it's going to be seen as poor social skills. I'm not there of course, I don't know if the crying is justified, I'm going by what the OP has said.

in any case things won't improve for Bex by just putting her in the same failing situation again and again.

OP, will you be coming back with an update? I'm mighty curious tbh!

I was Bex as a child. It was awful. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me or why nobody would play with me (I’m autistic and that was the main problem). But at the same time I understood that the other kids didn’t like me and no amount of intervention by parents could make them want to be my friends. That’s what Bex needs to learn - parents can’t force friendships, if she’s not wanted she just has to accept it and move on.

Sadly one day it will probably be your child excluded and hopefully this will teach her to be a bit kinder.

They should also remind their DDs that if you play in a shared or public space it is perfectly acceptable for others to ask to join in.

And it's perfectly acceptable to say no.

So if you're in a cafe with a friend and a mutual friend comes in and asks if it's ok for them to join you guys, you would just say "no"?

OP's daughter is being rude and mean to the excluded girl. Being "annoying" is no excuse to exclude and be nasty to another child.

My daughter also has a classmate who adores her and wants to hang out with her all the time, and my daughter finds her annoying and boring. I have definitely forced/bribed my daughter into enduring a few play dates with her when the other girl/her parents have been asking. And I encourage my daughter not to be a nasty piece of work.

So if you're in a cafe with a friend and a mutual friend comes in and asks if it's ok for them to join you guys, you would just say "no"?

Bex isn't a "mutual friend" though.

If the mother of Bex, is telling her to 'stand up for herself', that to me implies some sort of negative behaviour towards her from OPs daughter and the other girl.

It's sad to read this thread. Only 3 children in a street and 1 is always left out.

Exactly. It's definitely "mean girls" behaviour

Sadly one day it will probably be your child excluded and hopefully this will teach her to be a bit kinder.
What a mean thing to say. Would you want your kids playing with a child whose mother regularly taunts your child?! I don't think so. What if the mum's mean when the OP's not looking? What if she says sth mean to these kids because she thinks they should bow down to her kid?
Kids are free to play with whomever they want. If I were Bex's mum I'd tell my child "I don't like the other kids' mums so you're not playing with them anymore and that's final. Don't ask me, it's not happening." That would put a stop to it and Bex wouldn't think she's not likeable or that she's got issues.

Sadly it’s not mean it’s true as a mum of daughters myself they can be cruel to each other and excluded each other on a whim and then it all changes again. As the child is only 8 and obviously alone you cannot take what she is saying as totally true. I’ve always believe their is 3 sides to each story. Each persons side and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

This.

And I also have a daughter.

Her mum shouted, 'I'm fucking sick of them! Stand up for yourself Bex, push her!'
I find these words very peculiar and elaborate to come out of the head of an 8 y.o. I believe Bex's mum said them.

She's not a mutual friend.

8 is getting close to the age at which as a parent you have zero sway on who your child hangs out with anyway.

Agree it’s a difficult one. Heartbreaking when a child is left out but agree with 10Hailmarys earlier post forcing girls to “be kind” and socialise with those they don’t want to isn’t the answer. And it won’t work anyway a pity / duty friendship won’t endure.

Our neighbours we are friendly with have a Dd same age as our elder one same schools etc. The girls loathe each other but is mutual so us parents get on fine.

She’s a child.

Absolutely this. I was ‘left out’ for a period of my childhood too, and my mum was much the same. She was incredibly kind and nice about it, and she encouraged me to manage my shyness and find people I had things in common with, but she also made it clear that nobody is obliged to spend time with anyone else.

Also, to her credit, she never made me play with children I really didn’t get along with. She always made sure I gave people a chance and she also encouraged me to make allowances for differences - eg I was told that you don’t have to play with someone you don’t like, but that if someone is being left out because they are a bit different, you should look past that and try to get to know them because once you get to know them you might actually have loads in common and you’ll have both made a friend. But if they do in fact turn out to be a complete arsehole, you’re not obliged to carry on playing with them out of sheer charity.

I just remember kids from junior school who still cried or tantrumed over things after most of their peers had grown out of doing so. Kids don't tend to have a lot of patience for that sort of thing and kids still behaving in that way need support from adults to try and work out coping strategies.

It doesn't sound like Bex's mum is really helping either.