To not make my DD play with someone she doesn't want to?

[prissywakeup]

I'm having such problems at the moment with my DD (8 - 9 in October) and friendships. There is a girl on the street who my DD is very friendly with, will call her Rosie. There is another girl on the street that my DD and her friend are really not keen on, will call her Bex.

I have invited Bex over for dinner and to play to try and smooth things over but my DD just doesn't like her. If she comes to the door for my DD she will hide and beg me to lie and say she isn't in. Rosie and my DD play together a lot. They would play on the street or at the park but Bex would turn up and it ended up that Bex would always go home crying because she felt DD and Rosie were leaving her out.

I tried to speak to DD about being kind and how would she feel if she was being excluded etc. I then had Bex mum at my door saying that the girls were being nasty to Bex and hiding from her etc. the mum said to me in future if they don't want to play with her then the girls have just to say they don't want to play with her.

Bex stopped coming for DD since then and everything was fine. However, the past few days Bex has been coming again and my DD just doesn't want to play with her. So after school DD was at the park and Bex came over to her. DD said, 'I've had a bad day at school today so I don't really feel like playing' at which point Bex went back to her house where her mum was standing on the doorstep. Her mum shouted, 'I'm fucking sick of them! Stand up for yourself Bex, push her!'

So DD left the park and came and told me. Now the worry is if Rosie comes for her she feels like she can't play with her as it will upset Bex and her parents. DD is actually scared to walk past Bex house on her own now due to them shouting at her s few times.

I really don't know what to do. I am trying to teach my DD boundaries and how to assert them, I think forcing her to play with someone she has been quite clear she doesn't want to play with is going against what I'm teaching. At the same time I totally emphasis with Bex and her parents and how they must be feeling.

When I have asked the girls why they don't want to play with her they have said that she never wants to join in playing what they are playing, always starts crying if she doesn't get her way and they find her annoying.

I'm really not sure what to do, it's at the point I'm thinking of just keeping my DD in but that seems a shame. Any advice? AIBU to not force DD to play with bex?

I think playing out in public should be reasonably inclusive. It's hard to see two children playing in the street, ignoring a third.

This. If the same child is constantly the one left out it is just plain mean, unless that child is displaying very obviously difficult behaviour (aggression etc).

She just wants to play, she must be feeling SO awful about never being included, why are they being so mean? Its mean not to care that how you are behaving is making someone else really sad.

Why? They absolutly can exclude her.

God some people are unkind. This is a little girl we are talking about. 8 years old. How would you feel?

Tolerance and inclusivity are really nice traits to encourage in a child.

Agree with this. Sorry OP but this must be awful for poor Bex.
id be really interested to hear Bex and Rosie’s parents side of this.

And it's not a massive leap to assume she may not be great. Look at her Mother.

I will not be teaching my daughters that every sad story is their responsibility to solve.

They don't want to play with her. That's not their problem. They are on their time.

My attitude if the kids don't click don't make them mingle. Nothing worse than forcing friendship . The mum sounds awful.

I was Bex. It was awful at the time seeing all the girls running away from me like I was a piece of shit when all I wanted was to be play same as everyone else.

I was Bex too. I just wanted to join in.

I've brought my son up to be inclusive. I don't "force" him to play with anyone but encourage him to think of ways to broaden games so more people can play, and think about how our behaviour makes other people feel. He's really brilliant for being happy to play with anyone and see past /tolerate differences. It's my favourite thing about him. I always remind him to think how he would feel as the other person. Last week his teacher told me he tried really hard to include the non verbal child with autism in his class. I was SO proud of him. We should encourage these traits in our kids. I would rather my kid is kind than popular.

They don't have to always play with her but do they really have to leave her out of every single fucking game? At 8?

I live in fear of my daughter being “Bex” but even more so of being the one doing the excluding. 8 is so young but children can be so nasty at that age it’s actually quite shocking.

My daughter can choose who she has for play dates, at her parties but I’ve always taught her to not exclude people at school or at the park.

She’s kind natured to a fault and thinks everyone should be friends, but I’ve seen a particular child (it is always the same child) from the same school send her away at the park and it’s soul destroying to watch, as unbothered as she is outwardly.

I think excluding Bex when they’re playing in the street is spiteful. If they’re out playing then really they should let her join in. However her mother needs to stop letting her knock for your daughter if she’s not out. I do agree with a pp who suggested Bex and Rosie may actually be friends and it is your daughter who is being unkind here, sorry.

So Bex’s mother is standing on the doorstep shouting and swearing at your kid, and encouraging Bex to get physical with her? Imo you’re empathising too much with this woman at the expense of your DD.

You need to stand up for your child here. She should not lose out on going out to play because of bullying from a grown ass woman.Your daughter is allowed to have boundaries, why is teaching a distressed child to roll over a good thing? This is how women learn that their needs are unimportant.

Yes, kids have to learn to get on with people they dislike as they’ll meet them in professional environments. Presumably, the DD is learning this at school. There is a different though between working together with someone you don’t get on with, and socialising with them. Most adults don’t socialise with people they struggle to get on with.

It’s so tricky and I do think you need to intervene in light of Bex’s mum saying push her?! Your DD needs to see you are on her side.
Your DD doesn’t have to play with anyone she doesn’t want to but always leaving one girl out is unkind.
Can you get to bottom of why Bex isn’t welcome eg is she wanting to always dominate game or is she a tell tale if you don’t play x I’m telling my mum you’ve been mean.
I think I’d ask her Mum to stop Bex calling at your house.
In park I like suggestion of saying we are playing X you can join in. Explain to DD how would she feel if she was always left out. Is there a compromise that in public sometimes include her.
I’ve got a girl guide age 10 who tells me she has no friends at school. We obviously make sure she’s included but I can see why - she is much younger in how she presents herself and childish/silly, has long monologues on topics that others aren’t interested in, always the one who has lost a shoe etc. She’s a sweet girl and obviously as an adult I can see issues and include her but it’s a lot to expect an 8 or 9 year old to pick up on and deal with.

I do not think you should force your DD to play with Bex. I have a very similar situation. Girl at school who always wants to play with my DD, then cries every single time they play because my DD won't do exactly what she tells her to do and tells everybody she is mean. I have started telling my DD to avoid her but the girl seeks her out and does it over and over again. She can't escape her. She won't refuse to play with her as she thinks it would hurt her feelings because she has been taught to play with everyone. The girl doesn't give a shit about my DD's feelings.

We wonder why women stay in abusive or bad relationships. Yet we make children feel like they should put up with terrible behaviour in friendships as it would be bullying to not play with someone no matter what they do or how they treat you.

Why do people always seem to think that just because kids are the same age they have to get along and play with each other and that this is just as simple as 'including' each other? It's not.

They're human beings. They're all different. Would you, an adult, want to hang out regularly with someone you absolutely did not get along with and whose company you found actively infuriating, stressful and unpleasant? My guess is not.

So why would you force a child to do that? It's obvious from the extremity of your DD's reaction that she finds Bex's company a genuine chore, stressful and disruptive. Of course she doesn't want to play with her, because playing is meant to be a fun leisure activity and not anxiety-inducing hard work.

I still wouldn’t be happy about them excluding the other girl.

They are not 'excluding' her. They are simply not friends. If they were refusing to entertain the idea of even trying to play with her, because of some prejudice they had, that would be exclusion. But that isn't what's happened. They've played with her many times and it hasn't worked because the girls don't actually like each other and aren't compatible as friends. That is perfectly normal and perfectly fine. The problem here is caused by parents trying to force a friendship and by Bex's mother apparently not teaching her proper social skills.

If DD and Rosie are happily enjoying playing together and Bex keeps turning up uninvited and pushing herself into their game and being needy and whiny, then of course it's not going to make them enjoy her company, and Bex's mother should be fully aware that turning up and making a nuisance of yourself all the time when people clearly don't want you there and when this has repeatedly ended in tears is not the way for a child to make friends.

Nobody owes anyone a friendship just because they happen to live in the same street, whether that's a child or an adult. I have friends I meet up with now and again from a previous job we all used to do. Pizza and a bottle of wine in a local bar, that kind of thing. We don't invite the other two people from our old team because we have nothing in common with them and therefore we don't socialise. If one of the other two turned up uninvited and said 'I also used to work with you back in the day, and you are mean to exclude me from this social event, even though we have no actual liking for each other and we don't get along' that would be insane.

Bex can make other friends with people she actually gets along with. She presumably goes to school and so on and meets other kids there. I feel sorry for her mainly because her mother is a dickhead, but your kids aren't responsible for fixing her problems.

I think it's incredibly mean of yoru child to leave out one on thr Street. Sorry if you don't want to hear that.

My 8 year old is autistic though you might nit realise if you met her. She can be inflexible during play but her teacher has explained to the other children and they know that when she relaxes and is happy she is a lovely imaginative friend.

Absolutely no way would I encourage two children to leave out a neighbour. This is how play teaches tolerance.life is aboir being kind not just having bloody boundaries.

Wtf is a boundary when this is just 2 kids nit wanting to include a girl who actually lives on their street . I would be telling my child that life is aboit sometimes being flexible and inclusive.

@SemperIdem I do agree with a pp who suggested Bex and Rosie may actually be friends and it is your daughter who is being unkind here, sorry.

Where have you got this from? Why are you now being 'unkind' in scapegoating @prissywakeup s dd as the mean one?

Yet we make children feel like they should put up with terrible behaviour in friendships as it would be bullying to not play with someone no matter what they do or how they treat you.

I don't think that's true. It isnt always terrible behaviour. We've all seen how little groups can be amazingly nasty and "choose" someone to exclude. Its a known social dynamic and is a power play at this age - by ganging up on someone else it's a bid to ensure you arent left out yourself.

There are ways to manage this situation that aren't just letting one child be constantly left out, or letting the others ride roughshod over another child's feelings.

Three is a dynamic that rarely works.
You shouldn't force your children to play with Bex, but maybe suggest some better strategies for Rosie and the OP's DD to play without being unkind to Bex. Like being indoors or at the park. Playing in the street and visible to her, but excluding her isn't ok.
Maybe facilitate some games that need 3 - like skipping with a long rope. Or playing alongside but not together - I sometimes used to put a long piece of drawing paper and pens outside and several of the kids would draw.
It might need a bit more parental supervision until they work through this phase.

No wonder there are so many posts on here about unhappy children with no friends at school. Adults telling their kids they never have to let anyone join in if they don't want to..

What the f happened to teaching tolerance and kindness...these are 8 year olda not adults !

‘Be kind’ is a fucking curse on women. Because it’s always girls, and the women they become, that it’s applied to.

All it teaches is to be a doormat and to put your own needs and comfort last, no matter how distressing your may find it.

Then we wonder why girls grow up to become women who find themselves tolerating shit situations and struggle to assert themselves.

Bex can make other friends with people she actually gets along with. She presumably goes to school and so on and meets other kids there.

At 8 she probably is only allowed to play near the house without a grown up, so these are the only two children available to play after school and they apparently can't ever include her? No fucking wonder she's getting needy and whiny it's because they are being so unkind.

Yes.
As always this is the right of the individual (you don’t have to play with someone if you don’t want to) versus the community (don’t create an environment where people are excluded). Your opinion will depend on which end of the spectrum you tend to value. Most sensible people are in the middle. Make an effort not to exclude Bex but in return she has to fall in with the plans of the majority. And as she is a child and therefore may not have learned good social skills (the mum sounds like part of the problem) this has to be explained to her and her mum.

Be kind’ is a fucking curse on women. Because it’s always girls, and the women they become, that it’s applied to.

Bollocks I say it to my son all the time. It's a simple matter of putting yourselves in someone else's shoes. I bet rosie and OP's DD would be fucking miserable if it was them in Bex's shoes.

This has nothing to do with being a doormat or being female

I tell my 10 year old son he has to make sure he includes children and asks others to join in. I point out to him the struggles his autistic sibling has with friends dhaip and remind him to be always kind and not put his own needs first ie.tnink of a game others might like sometimes.

The point about street play is it us about rhe community. Just like I make sure I am friendly to my neighbours even if they wouldn't usually be my sort if people.

This girl and her buddy can have their own playdates but when playing on the street they can learn about being inclusive

I love how everyone is really down on Bex's mum but it's incredibly worrying and stressful when children are mean to yours and you feel like theres nothing you can do. Shes probably feeling so sad for her poor little girl. She's channelled that all wrong but I'd be cross too if kids were constantly leaving mine out and their parents did nothing.

Exactly. A lot of MNers on this thread would soon change their tune if it was their child being excluded ALL the time.

Two children playing a game in their private time putside school and other obligations do not have to accommodate anyone else. If your child can not conform for whatever reason it is not on them to change