Ukrainian refugee calling in sick and having new boyfriend over

[portugalq]

At the beginning of May, my mum took in a 22 year old Ukrainian refugee. My 22 year old sister lives in the home too. I’m later 20s and live about 40 minutes away but see my mum often.

We welcomed “Anna” warmly and have provided all her food etc, helped her update her CV and get a job and been her support system. She now has a good job in a lab and some love friends.

A couple of issues have come up I’d like advice on. Three days into her new job, she caught a virus and spent a few days at home. She then mentioned to my sister that although she was feeling better, she’d stay off work for the rest of the week as there were seven days before she needed a sick note.

In the last couple of weeks, has met a local boy on Tinder and has been seeing him a lot. My mum was away and she had him into the house to spontaneously spend an evening with my sister and her boyfriend.

The next night he came over again. My sister went to bed and Anna told my sister the next day that he had been tired so he’d ended up staying. My sister was shocked but didn’t say anything at the time.

She discussed it with me and I was surprised too. The boy lives with family and seemingly can’t have her over. He told my sister he has been going out on dates to please Anna but he doesn’t like it and prefers to stay at home. I can see a situation where he ends up turning up often at the house.

I feel uncomfortable with these two things and feel she is taking advantage a bit. My mum can be a bit of a pushover and I’m worried about what to do next. What do you think?

@Beingadiv a) why assume it’s fine? Fairly standard as a guest to ask permission before bringing an unknown person into the home. B) yes ask first. She has since clearly had him and a dog into the house when she saw we were out, and run away when we came back early. C) My mum has now said no guests at all, not only overnight (just to clarify).

DFOD Why is it hard to have a friendly conversation and offer advice? Do you have issues with assertion ? anger or confrontation? Do you withhold and judge and become bitter and withdraw?

Probably because of the afore-mentioned language difficulties.

I think you should put yourself in her shoes and walk a few miles before making any judgements.

First of all she's traumatised, lost her home, living with strangers, most likely seen some horrific events, is probably very anxious about the rest of her family and is most likely suffering from PTSD. She may be looking at people being herded onto planes for Rwanda and wondering if she is still safe here. Her responses and recovery will come out in ways you neither anticipate nor expect. They may be inconvenient and illogical.

Her experience of, attitude to and access to health services will likely be very different from yours. She may come from an area where health services are poor and people are therefore more cautious about illnesses, chest infections etc - because the outcomes are worse. She may find her job stressful, the situation she is in overwhelming, the people she is living with unfriendly. There are many reasons why she might find work difficult to cope with. Stress and PTSD may make physical symptoms that are slight feel much worse.

As for falling for someone, having sex, it's the absolute antidote to violence, murder and breakdown in the society she has experienced. Who could judge her if she wanted a little comfort, reassurance, excitement, loving, a feeling that she's dodged a bullet, is still alive and boy, take your chances and have fun in your life while you still can. This is one of the affects that wars have on people.

Your mum's investment in her emotional life and well being comes from a good place - your mum took her in because she needed a roof and help to stand on her own feet. But she is not a member of your family, you have to strike a balance between assisting her and letting her get on with her life without you getting involved in how she might lead it.

Your sister is living in your mother's house, so I'm not sure how a man staying overnight will impact on your mother's safety. Hopefully that man will have her best interests at heart.

The sick day wouldn't bother me, but it does seem rather forward to start having a boyfriend none of you know that well stay over without respectfully discussing it with who she is staying with first. Of course, she should be able to have a boyfriend and have him visit, but I'd find it a little disrespectful if he just started to stay over without anything being said.

If I was your mum, I would be fine with it as long as there was nothing bothering me about the guy, however I would find it forward of her to just expect it to be ok without no discussion.

You gave her no house rules re. guests, so she understandably didn't think it was a problem to have a boyfriend over. Then you told her she had to ask permission for overnight guests, which she did. Then you told her no overnight guests at all, so instead she chatted to her boyfriend outside on the drive for a while, and for some reason you didn't like that either, although i can't really see why. She also 'went in the kitchen' with him, which again, isn't having an overnight guest.

If your mum does not want Anna to have any guests, ever, either inside or outside the house, she needs to be clear about that. I assume the same rule would therefore apply to your sister, who is the same age as Anna?

I also think it's pretty understandable that a 22-year-old woman who has left everything and everyone she knows behind in a country under siege and is probably feeling desperately vulnerable and lonely inside has formed a rapid attachment to a new boyfriend who might not be remotely suitable for her. Psychologically, she's almost certainly affected by trauma in ways that she doesn't show outwardly and is doing anything she can to make her life feel 'normal' again - boyfriends, fun, things that make her feel like she's not just living in limbo.

Her sick leave or attendance at work is absolutely none of your bloody business, but if I'd fled a war-torn country and was constantly seeing news of horrific atrocities in my home country, I would probably not have my mind on my job either, frankly. Or perhaps she is indeed a serial skiver from work and makes a habit of this in Ukraine as well - but so what? That doesn't make her a less deserving refugee. Lazy people don't deserve to get slaughtered and raped by invading soldiers any more than hardworking people do.

Basically, your family took in a refugee and didn't expect her to be a normal, flawed human being like anyone else.

Just totally forget about the 'Ukrainian' aspect of it OP and also about the 'shoulda coulda woulda' of laying ground rules earlier. They've been laid now. (i don't think anyone was giving out handbooks on how to be the perfect host to refugees were they?)

You need to just simplify this for your sanity's sake and treat Anna as you would any other young adult lodger. If you believe that despite being told the landlady would prefer her not to bring random men into the house she's still doing it, then you need to talk to her again.

What you say and how you phrase it is up to you. We're all different.

Me? I'd tell her i was pretty sure she'd legged it out the back door with John when i got home and i wasn't happy. Take it from there.

Point taken that it perhaps could have been seen as inflammatory to lead with "Ukrainian refugee".

I wouldn't worry about it. If you hadn't put it in and mentioned it later you would only have been accused of drip feeding. You can't win with some people on here.

The OP has already stated that there are significant language difficulties because Anna doesn't understand much English, and that they have attempted to lay down ground rules but are unsure how much Anna understood.

I also think thats why its relevant to state Ukranian refugee in the title. It also lets everyone know that this particular lodger is possibly subject to different circumstances than someone else.

I think the OP's been given a fairly hard time here.

I'd be upset if a person living under my roof showed strong signs of dishonesty (ie taking a sickie in a new job).

I'd also be upset in her bringing a random man from tinder into the house - even more so after being told it's not allowed.

If I were your mum OP, I'd ask Anna to leave and offer her assistance to find somewhere else.

Why do people expect refugees to be somehow better than everyone else?

They're normal human beings, not saints. They've had a terrible experience and have most likely lost family, jobs, house etc.

Absolutely no reason why they have to be eternally grateful for being taken in. She's an adult and your judgement sounds like your family is hosting her on the condition that she's a good little Christian.

Would suggest that all the people on this thread who've done fuck all for Ukrainian refugees should probably wind their necks in a bit when it comes to criticising OP and her mum.

100% this.

I think you're right that she's been through so much and will definitely have been traumatised by seeing her country invaded and needing to move to a different country for the first time at 22. It is worth mentioning though that happily, a week after she moved in, her family got approved to move into their own house (owners live nearby) in the next village. So she does have a support system here as well as us.

I have absolutely no issue with anyone falling for someone and having sex. That aspect of life is important to me too. But I do have an issue with her inviting a strange man in without checking and then continuing to push the boundaries once they have been clearly laid out.

John has a home. They can't go there because his family doesn't allow it. She also has her family living nearby. They can't go there because her family doesn't allow it. So why should my mum's place become the free guesthouse?

She took in a young woman and has spent a lot of money and time providing EVERYTHING to get her set up. As someone mentioned upthread, no hosts have seen the £350 yet. Now Anna is working, she is paying £50/month towards food. My mum is happy to do all of this. But why would that generosity mean she should also open her home to men she doesn't know who openly boast about drug and drink driving issues?

No one is expecting anyone to be a saint, not a good little christian. Understanding that there are house rules that need to be followed to keep good relations and that pulling a sickie to go on a jolly, aren't going to impress a host who has probably forked out a small fortune on stuff for you. Its just disrespectful.

Sorry but please read the thread properly. She was told she had to ask permission TO HAVE ANYONE OVER, not just overnight. Since then, she invited him and a dog in while we were out and then ran away when we came home early.

She has now been told in no uncertain terms by my mum that it's just family in the house and no guests so hopefully that will be clear enough.

We will all be away on Saturday night and then for a week in September which is slight worrying. As my sister is a similar age to him she knows the crowd he spends time in and they would all jump at the chance of a "free house" to throw a party in.

The boyfriend is a stranger, so no I wouldn’t want him in my Mum’s house - it’s a risk and will add to costs. If your Mum doesn’t want him staying overnight she should tell Anna - that’s perfectly reasonable.

Just to add as well that if things had been done a little differently, there would likely be no issue with Anna having guests over. My mum has had lodgers in the past who have requested well in advance that a friend comes to stay and there has never been any issue.

It is the

1. She didn't ask permission for him to come over or stay the night as a courtesy.
2. Once boundaries were then set, she went against them.
3. He hasn't demonstrated his good character with the drug, drink driving issues etc.

I think my sister will try to give her some advice and have a general chat when this has calmed down a bit. Anna didn't understand when he was talking about the drug/drink so she'll explain then. He also creepily made a comment to my sister's boyfriend that my sister was his type, which she'll mention to Anna.

Quite.

In a normal lodger arrangement you rent out a room and don't expect other costs. You don't get emotionally involved. You don't go out of your way to ensure that you guest is fed when they have no income and they have no idea of when universal credit people will get their act together (usually in the region of a minimum of 5 weeks - at the same time you don't get the government payment you are supposed to get). I know of people who find themselves in financial difficulty because of this clusterfuck. You don't fill in horrendous forms and chase the home office to get them into the country. I know of people who have taken medication to deal with the stress of the process, its that bad. And it doesn't end when they enter the country sadly. I know of plenty who are facing battles to get school places, or benefits, or BRPs etc etc.

Pulling a sickie and then inviting someone back when you've been asked not to, is a slap in the face and shows a poor attitude. I can well imagine a host thinking "why the fuck have I been losing sleep and going out of my way to help this person, and they can't be arsed to help themselves and turn up for work?". I don't expect them to be eternally grateful and polish your shoes type subsevence either, but in the scheme of things just having a little respect that its someone else's home and they've put themselves on the line to do you a favour, perhaps at financial and emotional expense to them precisely BECAUSE you might have faced trauma isn't much.

Having faced trauma, isn't a catch all excuse to openly abusing the trust of your host. It still is a being a cunty fucker. Refugees can be cunty fuckers.

If you've come here to resettle you have to take the right attitude. Otherwise, there are alternative options for where you live and how you support yourself. At the end of the day the expectation in this situation will be that the host will inevitably bail out the guest again, if they end up losing their job and thats not really on is it?

@ClarissaD Actually we are hosting Ukrainian refugees, are you?

Even if I wasn't, I can still have an opinion. My opinion is that you don't accept refugees unconditionally.

How do you know that she had the BF in the house with the dog and ran out the back - do you have any proof of that?

If it did happen - she was seen by someone or admitted it - then your mother needs to make the rules clear and consequences.

This BF also sounds like trouble and could potentially be grooming her with the explicit / casual sexual references.

She is vulnerable.

He may also be coercive and controlling and may have targeted her - she may have difficulty with her own boundaries.

If you are going away and don’t want her in the house can you ask if a neighbour have her for that time.

If she is unable to work with your house rules then she needs to be clear of the consequences.

But I am still not clear that she actually broke any before they were put in place?

?? My comment is very clearly aimed at "the people on this thread who've done fuck all for Ukrainian refugees". It wasn't addressed to you.

So many here saying ''It seems you're expecting higher standards just because she's a refugee!''.

I imagine the average Ukrainians would be horrified to think we'd expect anything less than high standards! It's worse surely to expect or accept disrespectful behaviour just because she's a refugee.

As someone mentioned upthread, no hosts have seen the £350 yet

Holy shit still? In the middle of a cost of living crisis.

I don't have incontrovertible proof no but I have the evidence I've put forward which I think is pretty strong. In that case the rule she broke was not checking with my mum before having a guest over.

Yeah I am a little concerned about her vulnerability too. I think she may have been rather sheltered at home as she had never lived apart from her family and wasn't allowed boys to stay. The language barrier inevitably creates a power imbalance and means he can say inappropriate things in her presence to others without her understanding.

I know there is a cultural difference in attitudes towards relationships and she has remarked that once a relationship starts, the man's life continues as normal with friends, a job, interests, and the woman's become all about the man. My mum and sister gently challenged that at the time but there is a limit to the advice that can be given when it's life-long social conditioning and culture.

So it’s just as likely that she strictly obeyed your DM rules? As he could well have parked on the drive, knocked at the front door and she came out to walk with him.

Have you asked her - or is it more comfortable for you to assume?