Ukrainian refugee calling in sick and having new boyfriend over

[portugalq]

At the beginning of May, my mum took in a 22 year old Ukrainian refugee. My 22 year old sister lives in the home too. I’m later 20s and live about 40 minutes away but see my mum often.

We welcomed “Anna” warmly and have provided all her food etc, helped her update her CV and get a job and been her support system. She now has a good job in a lab and some love friends.

A couple of issues have come up I’d like advice on. Three days into her new job, she caught a virus and spent a few days at home. She then mentioned to my sister that although she was feeling better, she’d stay off work for the rest of the week as there were seven days before she needed a sick note.

In the last couple of weeks, has met a local boy on Tinder and has been seeing him a lot. My mum was away and she had him into the house to spontaneously spend an evening with my sister and her boyfriend.

The next night he came over again. My sister went to bed and Anna told my sister the next day that he had been tired so he’d ended up staying. My sister was shocked but didn’t say anything at the time.

She discussed it with me and I was surprised too. The boy lives with family and seemingly can’t have her over. He told my sister he has been going out on dates to please Anna but he doesn’t like it and prefers to stay at home. I can see a situation where he ends up turning up often at the house.

I feel uncomfortable with these two things and feel she is taking advantage a bit. My mum can be a bit of a pushover and I’m worried about what to do next. What do you think?

Her boyfriend staying over without asking your mum is not on. The rest is her business entirely. She’s young, young people aren’t renowned for being sensible regardless of nationality. Tbh as well if you’ve come from a war zone, enjoying your life is probably top on your list of priorities. Just say “look my mum doesn’t know this guy, it’s her house, keep your dates outside or go to his”.

22 year old woman wants to date and have a sex life. Shocking. She has also pulled a sickie. Not what you expected. You and your family presumably thought she’d stay in all the time, showing her eternal gratitude to you all by kissing your feet. Instead she’s like an actual person.

Is this from personal experience? If not how do you know its strange? What is she meant to do. Sit in her room weeping 24/7?

On the sick certificate question. In Ukraine, the doctor decides how long you must stay off work, based on your symptoms. For example, it is extremely frowned on to come back when you are feeling okayish, but still coughing / possibly infectious. It is normal to have a day or two recuperation period after the worst of the illness too. It is genuinely not piss-taking, people just don't come into work with runny noses, and the British tradition of sending children into the school or daycare with fever and a bottle of calpol is still quite mind boggling to me.

If you come back before your sick note expires, you'll be accepted with such public enthusiasm by your colleagues as if you had brought head lice. No one wants to catch flu or norovirus because of someone's desire for presenteeinsm.

It is not her home so she doesn’t not call the shots. Why should OP’s mum and younger sister share their house with a strange man they didn’t consent to being there? The woman has two options: 1. Go back to work (OP said the woman admitted she was not sick and it’s not fair that OP’s mum is even more out of pocket) and meet her new fling elsewhere; or 2. Move out into a house share and have him over as much as she likes.

My grandmother endured hardship and was surrounded by death from the day she was born to the day she left her country (early 20s). She worked hard in England and was grateful to be here. She was incredibly poor but at least she could get food here. But she’s not white so…

There is also quite a good chance that she might have assumed that John has already had a chat with the hosts about staying over, especially all of them being British. Ukraine is a modern country, but the question of logistics of how and where to have sex still almost always falls to the man.

She isn't socialising every hour between 10pm and 6am is she? Saying no overnight male guests isn't saying she can't have a boyfriend. Its not saying she can't have friends. Its not restricting her to stop socialising. Its not stopping her leave the house.

All it is saying is that strange men are not allowed overnight. Thats reasonable. Especially if the arrangement is intended to only last for six months. There are multiple reasons why strange men over night is a safety issue and concern for a woman housing a refugee.

If this woman is more bothered about getting her leg over than respecting their hosts views on this, then she should just leave.

Being a host is not just having a live in lodger. Anyone saying it is, is gloriously naive too.

I note here that he apparently stayed because he was too tired to go home.

I also note that apparently she can't stay at his because he lives with family. So apparently he can cope with the idea of not being able to have overnight guests and respects that. As long as its on his terms.

Hes a piss taker and tbh that in itself is a reason to ban him from overnight stays.

I can't understand the problem.

Your mum told her she needs to ask before having visitors, so she did and has since sat outside in a car to avoid needing to ask. Doesn't sound like Anna took offence, she obviously at first thought it would be fine and now knows otherwise.
If your mum doesn't want John in the house at all she needs to speak up.

Sorry my comment was in relation to this bit in particular:

Very strange to come from middle of the war and in a month to be dating…. Or whatever.

I get the point about them being more like a guest than a lodger now. Maybe mum needs to just put down some ground rules about men in the house. I don't think she can or should get involved with the job though. This isn't an exchange student, they are an adult.

It depends on youe mums rules
I wouldn't have allowed it.
She is a stranger that has strangers over...
Thanks no thanks.

So who of you all have taken in Ukrainian refugees then ? Are you planning to have any?

Nope but I don't pretend to know how to help someone who has fled a war zone. I also don't have the room. People should have thought this through a lot better than they clearly have. It's very difficult.

Point taken that it perhaps could have been seen as inflammatory to lead with "Ukrainian refugee". We certainly aren't xenophobic - that's why we've spent time and money opening my mum's home to host Anna and make her feel welcome. I do think at some point in the post I would have needed to mention that though as it's a fairly unique situation, not the same as a lodger or houseguest or flat mate. So then it would have been a fairly huge dripfeed.

I completely understand that 22 year old sometimes push boundaries with work etc and I don't think pulling a sickie is the worst thing in the world. I do think it's a worrying thing to do 3 days into a new job in a new country, openly telling your host family (who have sponsored your visa to allow you to work) that you feel better now but there is a clothes sale on Friday you want to go to so you'll stay off until then.

My mum and I talked about it a lot last night and she managed to have a chat with Anna this morning to let her know the home is just for family and there were no overnight guests allowed. Mum asked Anna if John had been asking to come over and she said yes, so Mum said "you can tell him I've said no". There is a language barrier though so it can be hard to know what has been understood.

We definitely want to do this in a nurturing and caring way as far as possible. When I was 22 the arseholes I would get caught up by! But because trust has been broken it makes it a little harder to have a friendly conversation offering advice now.

The three of us got home from the shop at about 9.30pm last night and saw his car in the drive, which confused us because my sister had already let Anna know my mum's permission had to be asked for guests. But they weren't in the house, although the whole loaf of frozen bread was out on the side and the back door was open. We realised later that they must have been in the kitchen together and run out the back door and through the field, because they later emerged round the front of the house (there is a circular walk) with John's neighbour's dog. So Anna must have had John and a strange dog in the house, knowing it wasn't allowed and then run away from us.

She's 22... not 12

Thos clearly isn't working for you, OP.

Don't like the sound of the bloke-ex criminal? YOur mum is perfectly entitled to have who she chooses in her house so can tell Anna no. Sitting in the car on the drive would annoy the crap out of me. Why can't they go out? And no, they can't bring the dog in and scamper out knowing your mum won't be happy. It's nothing to do with Anna being a refugee, she can't simply do as she likes as a lodger, she needs to abide by whatever your mum decides. If your mum is uncomfortable with him in the house, then he doesn't come in. Who are all these liberal minded people who don't mind cocaine using drink drivers being in their house?

Very impractical. The whole ethos around the scheme was that ordinary people could make available spare capacity they had in their houses, not for specially trained or qualified people who had been rigorously recruited to do so. What would you suggest? A local authority licensing regime that would take months to enforce and would reduce the places available by about 90%? Along with compulsory training? Even then it would likely point out that consent of the homeowner to overnight visitors be sought in advance and if not granted, they would not be permitted. Lodgers do not have the same legal rights as tenants. Anyone would struggle with John's behaviour and identify concerns for Anna in these circumstances.

This is pure suspicion and dramatic speculation.

He could equally have driven over, parked on the drive and then they went for a walk from the front. Adhering to house rules.

You might need to add more if that’s what you want - don’t leave the back door unlocked - don’t park on my drive - if that’s the issue.

I am not sure she has done anything that wrong and seems to have responded to feedback by her actions.

But because trust has been broken it makes it a little harder to have a friendly conversation offering advice now.

Where was the trust broken?

Your mother never gave her any house rules - she just did what she saw your sister do with her BF - and then when this was addressed has abided by the now communicated rules.

Why is it hard to have a friendly conversation and offer advice? Do you have issues with assertion ? anger or confrontation? Do you withhold and judge and become bitter and withdraw?

People aren’t mind readers. Just gently and neutrally outline your expectations clearly as they come up - don’t treat her coldly like “trust” has been broken.

Its like you're looking for this to end in tears. Where has she broken trust? She was told no overnight guests, not nobody in the house at all. Your family need to stop gossiping and get much clearer with her.

So far she's been told 3 different things about guests: a) nothing, so assume it's fine b) ask first c) no overnight guests. Can you not see that your family are at fault for their own discomfort here? They need to think through a list of rules and perhaps provide them in writing as part of a discussion.

Get over the sick leave. It is really not your business.

what a lovely drip feed

Refugees are just normal people. Normal people sometimes have clashes of personality and lifestyle. That's all that's happening here, the refugee in question isn't a perfect fit for the host. Just part of the risk of offering them a home.

Point taken my mum never gave her ground rules but she is a guest and I think it’s normal to expect she would ask the home owner before inviting someone in. It’s not the same as my sister - a family member who lives there and pays rent - having her boyfriend of 3 years over.