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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

782 replies

portugalq · 19/06/2022 18:26

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

OP posts:
Purplefoxes · 20/06/2022 07:37

Eightiesfan · 20/06/2022 06:27

Transphobia isn’t losing its meaning, it already been lost by its use as a slur for anyone who has a different opinion. The people who throw this term around so lightly have really shot themselves in the foot…do we need another sporting category for them as well.🤔

Right now Stonewall and their cronies are limping like a three legged dog (no pun intended!)

Haha absolutely this. The angry trans people are even angrier now they are no longer being pandered to and resorting to more gorilla tactics as a result, this will only damage their cause further. It's taken a while for people to wake up to what is going on. Hopefully they will STFU when there is a trans category just for them and they can all compete amongst themselves instead of trying to compete with people they have an advantage over.

givethatWolfAbanana · 20/06/2022 07:38

It’s wonderful if all men’s category becomes an “open” to include trans athletes as well as certain women who like to compete in a tougher field (is that right that this is happening in the swimming ?)

thst way everyone can compete, without affecting women who want to compete against their own sex only.

trans athletes are not excluded from sport

everyone gets to compete in the fairest category

win win

Wheresthebeach · 20/06/2022 07:43

Finally some sense

itsgettingweird · 20/06/2022 07:44

Funny how you don’t tend to get female born athletes kicking off and demanding to compete against men, isn’t it?

There's a FTM athlete who competes in the same uni comps as Lia Thomas. He has had a double mastectomy and is physically transitioning.

I'll give you 1 guess which sex race he competes in!

itsgettingweird · 20/06/2022 07:46

Just caught the end of an interview on GMB. The woman on there advocating for trans athletes to compete in gender identifies ended it saying trans athletes are happy for the science to determine competition.

RenegadeMatron · 20/06/2022 07:49

I honestly couldn’t give a shit if the word ‘transphobic’ is lobbed at me. The word has lost all meaning, and it’s not an effective silencing tactic any more.

Hopefully soon the people who use it will begin to realise this.

Supersee · 20/06/2022 07:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

It's the new mumsnet bingo. Along with if you aren't a parent why are you here.

Spouts of 'transphobia' but never any explanations past this.

DuckBilledPlattyJoobs · 20/06/2022 07:56

SpinningRoundRightRound · 19/06/2022 22:52

Male puberty >>> male sports for you, laddy

This
great news

Samcro · 20/06/2022 07:56

glad to hear this. the people shown on the news are not women.

Clymene · 20/06/2022 07:58

Reports on Radio 4 this morning. I'm so happy for the next generation of women swimmers

TidyDancer · 20/06/2022 07:58

itsgettingweird · 20/06/2022 07:46

Just caught the end of an interview on GMB. The woman on there advocating for trans athletes to compete in gender identifies ended it saying trans athletes are happy for the science to determine competition.

Do you mean India Willoughby? Not sure from your description if that's who you're referring to.

Willoughby has a strange perspective on this issue in general. Keeps sharing a photo of themselves on Twitter in a dress and a small section of their passport as 'evidence' they are a woman. Has no actual argument to make though apparently.

SolasAnla · 20/06/2022 08:00

itsgettingweird · 20/06/2022 07:46

Just caught the end of an interview on GMB. The woman on there advocating for trans athletes to compete in gender identifies ended it saying trans athletes are happy for the science to determine competition.

The woman is trashing the term "science".
People who do physical activity or have been around growing children are not stupid and can recognise the evidence of their own eyes.

elfycat · 20/06/2022 08:00

The whole point of having a women's category is because of physical differences. Having watched school sports day (I have 2 to attend this week) the sexual dimorphism between the sexes is so flipping obvious. A Year 3 child runs a race and either a sporty-ish boy or girl can win. My year 8 daughter, who has been doing karate since she was 4 and does a level of running and cardio as part of that, has zero chance of winning against a sporty boy in her year. The adolescent changes have kicked in.

And while things are improving for women, we've never achieved true equality. In sports that has meant bigger prizes for men's sport. More TV coverage. Male athletes getting sponsorship (back to money). Women's sport has less prestige because we aren't the fastest or strongest in the world, not matter how hard athletes train. Or try.

It's not transphobic to try to protect women's sports. Sex is a protected characteristic, as is gender reassignment. This isn't a game of Equality Act 2010 Top Trumps, but it sure feels like it, and women don't have the top scoring cards.

AngelinaFibres · 20/06/2022 08:03

If they take it to court then the science will be discussed in open court and hopefully this bizarre rubbish that twaw will be seen for the utter rubbish it is

334bu · 20/06/2022 08:03

If only Cycling had had the courage to follow the science like FINA, rather than picking a testosterone level and time period out of the air, to try and pretend that they were being fair to their female cyclists . Well done FINA for choosing fairness and safety for their women athletes.

itsgettingweird · 20/06/2022 08:04

Possibly tidy. I literally caught the closing statement and it didn't feel like a "we are happy for the science to determine" but rather a dig that they thought the science wouldn't back finas argument.

Wish I'd watched it all but I'd literally just walked in from taking my own para swimmer training!

My para swimmer who gets his own category to compete in - you know - for inclusion and fairness so all can take part in the sport.

Pinana · 20/06/2022 08:05

Great news. And great to see this in AIBU rather than on the Feminism part of the forum, so it gets a wider audience. And the 'you're transphobic' crew (men's rights activists) can get as angry as they want, this topic is beginning to open people's eyes to the wider issues here.

felulageller · 20/06/2022 08:05

About bloody time.

ApplesandBunions · 20/06/2022 08:08

sleepingophelia · 20/06/2022 06:20

Surely decent people want fairness in sport?

It is not transphobic to notice the clear advantage male-born swimmers and all other sportspeople have when competing in a women's event.

I mean, I know we moved past logic and facts a long time ago, but men's bodies have larger frames and a greater muscle-to-fat ration than women's... You can't magic that away.

Yeah but this individual self identifies as decent, so obviously that trumps everything.

AngelinaFibres · 20/06/2022 08:09

Purplefoxes · 20/06/2022 07:37

Haha absolutely this. The angry trans people are even angrier now they are no longer being pandered to and resorting to more gorilla tactics as a result, this will only damage their cause further. It's taken a while for people to wake up to what is going on. Hopefully they will STFU when there is a trans category just for them and they can all compete amongst themselves instead of trying to compete with people they have an advantage over.

It will be quite satisfying when all the men, who were rubbish at male swimming, find that they can no longer beat actual biological women and have to return to being crap male swimmers. The only change will be that they are a mediocre in their own special category.

AngelinaFibres · 20/06/2022 08:12

ApplesandBunions · 20/06/2022 08:08

Yeah but this individual self identifies as decent, so obviously that trumps everything.

Decent......but with massive hands and feet, far greater lung capacity,bigger bones, different pelvis, and on and on. I sincerely hope the tide against this twaw just because they say so is turning. The madness has gone on for too long.

BordoisAgain · 20/06/2022 08:13

This site shows the differences between athletic performances between the different sexes - teenage boys beat female Olympic athletes in most events. It's quite stark to see how much of a difference male puberty makes.

Boysvwomen.com

Mennex · 20/06/2022 08:14

Hear! HEAR!

Fantastic to see sense and fairness for all prevail. I don't think my brain even processes the phobic word anymore. It's a nonsense and has lost all meaning. And was stupid to begin with, a phobia is a psychological condition where you have an overwhelming fear of something. I'm not scared of trans people, I wish them every happiness to enjoy the same human rights that we all have, I just don't think they should be allowed to trample on women's rights.

SoupDragon · 20/06/2022 08:16

Common sense at last!

i have no problem at all with treating transgender individuals as their identified gender but the sport thing was ridiculous.

Viviennemary · 20/06/2022 08:16

Then there should be an open class for those who don't want biological sex taken into consideration. Except they do. They don't let heavywright boxers complete in the lightweight class. What happens if they identify as lightweight. The whole thing is a farce.